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Diegobuck ●
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Diegobuck said...
You a night owl tamu? I live on the west coast so I don't see much posting late but you always seem to be active.
Yeah, for the most part, I do a lot of my homework late at night and this is a nice break from it. I've always pretty much been a night owl.
Go Blue & Gig Em'!
TAMUWolverine
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Diegobuck ●
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TAMUWolverine
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Diegobuck ●
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TAMUWolverine
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TAMUWolverine
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Diegobuck said...
I think the balance is back in the big ten and as much as I wish no one got any Ohio recruits it was inevitable after what happened that the recruiting there would shift. Like you said about the comparisons between urban and RR, urban will get much better talent fitting the big ten. I have not seen anyone post this opinion but i think what tressel did was great for OSU and horrible for the big ten. Without many national recruits and not missing on Ohio talent we didn't do well competing nationally (in games) and other programs like you guys and MSU struggled getting less talent from Ohio. Our conference has taken a lot of scrutiny for this and to have more teams competive (whether we like seeing rivals win or not) nationally is good for all of us. Even if it goes back to the big 2 it helps us both to be portrayed in a strong conference that can recruit and play with the SEC.
WingedHelmet
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Diegobuck ●
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WingedHelmet said...
I am torn on wanting the other teams in the B10 to do well, too. It's been a nightmare just having to listen to Sparty fans these past few years. Yet it's been equally embarrassing watching the draft the past two nights and seeing all the first round draft picks coming out of the SEC. There"s no doubt that OSU has been carrying the B10 banner nationally since at least 2007, but I finally feel Michigan is on path to get back to that level. Still, given how much the SEC has stepped up its game over the past decade, two elite B10 teams is not enough. Nebraska and PSU also need to seriously step up their games if the B10 is ever going to be able to stand toe-to-toe as a conference with the SEC again.
WillyWolverine ●
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WingedHelmet said...
I am torn on wanting the other teams in the B10 to do well, too. It's been a nightmare just having to listen to Sparty fans these past few years. Yet it's been equally embarrassing watching the draft the past two nights and seeing all the first round draft picks coming out of the SEC. There"s no doubt that OSU has been carrying the B10 banner nationally since at least 2007, but I finally feel Michigan is on path to get back to that level. Still, given how much the SEC has stepped up its game over the past decade, two elite B10 teams is not enough. Nebraska and PSU also need to seriously step up their games if the B10 is ever going to be able to stand toe-to-toe as a conference with the SEC again.
Diegobuck ●
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Maize&Blue said...
I agree i think PSU and Nebraska would be the next best candidates to help the Big Ten overtake the SEC. Personally, I think with the talent coming out of Illinois if they can get a good coach who can keep that talent in state they could be a pretty good program as well. Then throw in a solid Wisconsin and Iowa teams here and there and the Big Ten would be a strong conference. MSU can go all the way to the bottom as far as i am concerned.
WingedHelmet
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WingedHelmet said...
BBBG, I know Urban is not RichRod, but from an outsider's perspective the parallels are eerie. The two big differences I see right now is you have the perfect QB to ChillyBuck said...
And even he couldn't make Cincinnati the best team in Ohio 2 of the last 3 years.
run a spread offense from day 1 and you have one of the best defenses in the B10. But RR did many of the same things that Urban seems to be doing and the unintended consequences were devastating.RR repeatedly passed up and/or didn't show enough early love to top talent in Michigan and the Midwest and much of that talent ended up at places like MSU, OSU, ND, PSU, IA and WI. Also, we "downsized" at many positions in the name of speed. Yes, we got faster, but our QBs, RBs, WRs, OLs, and FBs (to the extent we really had any) all got significantly smaller. And those smaller players had a hard time holding up against the better and bigger teams in the Big 10.
BuckI 4 eva4854
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buttesnake ●
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Maize&Blue said...
I agree i think PSU and Nebraska would be the next best candidates to help the Big Ten overtake the SEC. Personally, I think with the talent coming out of Illinois if they can get a good coach who can keep that talent in state they could be a pretty good program as well. Then throw in a solid Wisconsin and Iowa teams here and there and the Big Ten would be a strong conference. MSU can go all the way to the bottom as far as i am concerned.
DWags ●
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D.Wags said...
Which team in the country beat not one but two bcs teams and the third place team from the sec? I guess it's fine to hope it's a false assention, perhaps it is. I've watched a lot of football in fifty years and have watched some phony teams who gave promise to false programs, many right at MSU. This program is different. I don't know it's a NC program, but disregarding it teams do so at their own peril.
MSU, at least for the next two or three years will pull it's weight as far as enhancing the overall strength of the big ten. That's a truth that wasn't true in the past. As much as you might hate it in football or we might hate it in basketball, it helps our league and in the end helps our schools if we can win that game between us. That's what makes the football and basketball seasons more fun, more frustrating, and more exciting.
WillyWolverine ●
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Maize&Blue said...
You apparently missed my point. I don't care if MSU carries their weight in the Big Ten. As far as i am concerned Sparty can turn into the worst football program in the country.
Fair enough. Noted.
Ps. MSU is not your rival, we're third.
This post was edited by DWags on 4/28/2012 at 8:54 PM
DWags ●
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D.Wags said...
Which team in the country beat not one but two bcs teams and the third place team from the sec? I guess it's fine to hope it's a false assention, perhaps it is. I've watched a lot of football in fifty years and have watched some phony teams who gave promise to false programs, many right at MSU. This program is different. I don't know it's a NC program, but disregarding it teams do so at their own peril.
MSU, at least for the next two or three years will pull it's weight as far as enhancing the overall strength of the big ten. That's a truth that wasn't true in the past. As much as you might hate it in football or we might hate it in basketball, it helps our league and in the end helps our schools if we can win that game between us. That's what makes the football and basketball seasons more fun, more frustrating, and more exciting.
MrWoodson ●
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MrWoodson said...
Sparty has had a nice 2-year run, but let's not overstate the situation. Until the past two years, Sparty has been a "bottom half of the B10" team since the mid 60s. That is roughly half your existence as a football program. And two unusually good seasons does not suddenly make you UM or OSU. It also doesn't make you PSU, Nebraska, Iowa or Wisconsin. Heck, even NW has been to more Rose Bowls in the past 20 years. I think we all should wait just a little bit longer before we declare that Dantonio has fundamentally changed the football landscape in the B10 forever.
This post was edited by DWags on 4/30/2012 at 3:33 PM
DWags ●
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D.Wags said...
You act like I don't know that stuff. MSU has not been a good football team for years. I have suffered MSU football way more than I have enjoyed it. I know good programs, Michigan and OSU have had good programs (Osu maybe has taken some short cuts other teams haven't). MSU's program has sucked for years. Proof? Denny, Daryl, Muddy, George, Nick, Bobby, Morris, John L., Mark Dantonio. 9 coaches in 35 years. How does that make a stable environment? It didnt'. We've had some coaches who ran a very professional practice, it was a pleasure to watch, and I got to work with them in the summer. However, MSU was nothing more than a stepping stone for them. Nick Saban in a coaches meeting, with 5 visiting summer coaches said and I quote "If I dont' think I can win here, I won't be here". I never took that as his belief he thought MSU could become a winner, I took it as his skepticism the Malfunctioning family could get it together enough for him to stay. Turned out I was right. When Saban beat U of M in 99, and seemed to have the thing headed safely into a different territory, he went to McPhearson and asked for things. Not just more for himself as so many Spartans on the RCMB will tell you because they hate him for leaving, but he asked for PROGRAM things. More money for recruiting, a secretarial staff for football only. A Duffy Dougherty buildind staff of it's own to take care of helmets shoulder pads etc thursday nights and not have to borrow custodians from the physical plant to do that. He wanted, as did Perles, the stadium to have the suites we finally built when he left. He wanted the scoreboard we're getting in this year (I'm told 4th largest in the nation), he wanted a players locker room and clubhouse. He mostly wanted an athletic major at MSU. We recruit players with 2.0 h.s. averages, we see them score a 17 on the ACT and then we throw them into regular classes like we think somehow they're going to become students all of the sudden. It's what got Perles in trouble with the grade changing stuff. Not excusable, but I understood what was happening. We've been so dysfuntional over the last 35 years that it's been a miracle that we've been to any bowls let alone one Rose Bowl.
It's different now. All I'm saying. I've watched that program for 50 years. 40 of them I actually knew what was going on. This is different. It really is. Not saying we'll be this dynasty, that we'll be in teh Rose or like the idiot in todays Detroit news says competing for a National Championship (he has to be high). What I do know is while you think it might be some kind of fluke, I'm impressed by lack of coache leaving each season, a since of family finally, the use of Izzo and Hollis to help the team, and Dantonio's singlemindedness. Sure, he's a red ass, and he says what's on his mind, but we needed it. He gets it. I'm glad he hates Michigan. I'm glad he does that stuff where you might think it's stupid or foolish, I'm glad he started a clock and acknowledged which team we need to be able to beat first and foremost. Woody used to say he was obsessed with Michigan because if he could beat Michigan, he could beat anyone on his schedule. I don't see whats wrong with that. I know you and most of the Michigan fan base don't want this to be a "rival" game. It's why when Dantonio does things to get under your skin I think it's great. Whether you think its childish or whatever, he has your attention. It doesn't hurt us that that has happened IMO.
Changed the landscape? Nope not in the least. When after 6 final fours, 11 elite 8's a plythora of conference championships one National Championship and being voted "program of the decade" by SI, the Detroit media was ready to say the "land scape of college basketball has changed" because Michigan has made two NCAA tournaments in a row and has had one conference championship in 25 years, we at MSU get a bit chaffed too. We understand that. All we can do in football and you can do in basketball is show up and compete. Sooner or later we're either going to be found out to be frauds, or we're going to show people we can actually hold our own water. I have a feeling we will be able to compete for a while, at least with Dantonio. I've been wrong a billion times before.
Sorry it's so long.
WillyWolverine ●
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DWags ●
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D.Wags said...
You act like I don't know that stuff. MSU has not been a good football team for years. I have suffered MSU football way more than I have enjoyed it. I know good programs, Michigan and OSU have had good programs (Osu maybe has taken some short cuts other teams haven't). MSU's program has sucked for years. Proof? Denny, Daryl, Muddy, George, Nick, Bobby, Morris, John L., Mark Dantonio. 9 coaches in 35 years. How does that make a stable environment? It didnt'. We've had some coaches who ran a very professional practice, it was a pleasure to watch, and I got to work with them in the summer. However, MSU was nothing more than a stepping stone for them. Nick Saban in a coaches meeting, with 5 visiting summer coaches said and I quote "If I dont' think I can win here, I won't be here". I never took that as his belief he thought MSU could become a winner, I took it as his skepticism the Malfunctioning family could get it together enough for him to stay. Turned out I was right. When Saban beat U of M in 99, and seemed to have the thing headed safely into a different territory, he went to McPhearson and asked for things. Not just more for himself as so many Spartans on the RCMB will tell you because they hate him for leaving, but he asked for PROGRAM things. More money for recruiting, a secretarial staff for football only. A Duffy Dougherty buildind staff of it's own to take care of helmets shoulder pads etc thursday nights and not have to borrow custodians from the physical plant to do that. He wanted, as did Perles, the stadium to have the suites we finally built when he left. He wanted the scoreboard we're getting in this year (I'm told 4th largest in the nation), he wanted a players locker room and clubhouse. He mostly wanted an athletic major at MSU. We recruit players with 2.0 h.s. averages, we see them score a 17 on the ACT and then we throw them into regular classes like we think somehow they're going to become students all of the sudden. It's what got Perles in trouble with the grade changing stuff. Not excusable, but I understood what was happening. We've been so dysfuntional over the last 35 years that it's been a miracle that we've been to any bowls let alone one Rose Bowl.
It's different now. All I'm saying. I've watched that program for 50 years. 40 of them I actually knew what was going on. This is different. It really is. Not saying we'll be this dynasty, that we'll be in teh Rose or like the idiot in todays Detroit news says competing for a National Championship (he has to be high). What I do know is while you think it might be some kind of fluke, I'm impressed by lack of coache leaving each season, a since of family finally, the use of Izzo and Hollis to help the team, and Dantonio's singlemindedness. Sure, he's a red ass, and he says what's on his mind, but we needed it. He gets it. I'm glad he hates Michigan. I'm glad he does that stuff where you might think it's stupid or foolish, I'm glad he started a clock and acknowledged which team we need to be able to beat first and foremost. Woody used to say he was obsessed with Michigan because if he could beat Michigan, he could beat anyone on his schedule. I don't see whats wrong with that. I know you and most of the Michigan fan base don't want this to be a "rival" game. It's why when Dantonio does things to get under your skin I think it's great. Whether you think its childish or whatever, he has your attention. It doesn't hurt us that that has happened IMO.
Changed the landscape? Nope not in the least. When after 6 final fours, 11 elite 8's a plythora of conference championships one National Championship and being voted "program of the decade" by SI, the Detroit media was ready to say the "land scape of college basketball has changed" because Michigan has made two NCAA tournaments in a row and has had one conference championship in 25 years, we at MSU get a bit chaffed too. We understand that. All we can do in football and you can do in basketball is show up and compete. Sooner or later we're either going to be found out to be frauds, or we're going to show people we can actually hold our own water. I have a feeling we will be able to compete for a while, at least with Dantonio. I've been wrong a billion times before.
Sorry it's so long.
This post was edited by MrWoodson on 4/30/2012 at 4:22 PM
MrWoodson ●
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MrWoodson said...
I never said Dantonio wasn't a good coach. And whether he sticks around or not, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. The only thing that matters is what he does when he gets his first really good offer to go somewhere else (like Izzo and the Cavs).
As for MSU's future, I am not saying you can't become a consistently good football school. I am saying it takes much longer than two seasons. Wisconsin has spent the past 20+ years grinding away and moving up the ladder in the B10. Before Alvarez, they were lower on the food chain than MSU, but Alvarez stuck around and built them into a consistent contender. And Beilema might be a total prick, but he has done an excellent job continuing what Alvarez started. Wisconsin has been to five Rose Bowls since hiring Alvarez, which probably is more than all but four or five teams in both the B10 and P12 combined. That is all I'm saying. If Dantonio turns out to be your Alvarez, great, but it's far too early to know one way or the other. And Alvarez-level coaches do not grow on trees.
This post was edited by DWags on 4/30/2012 at 4:40 PM
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