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Will Meyer be left with scraps at OL?

  • BestoftheBig said...

    Landed a LOT of big fish...only UM thinks the OL is the Biggest of Fish. I'll take Urbans recruiting style, get the fastest, best Defensive players and skill position players, the OL is the biggest position that doesn't translate to their HS rankings. If a kid is bigger than everyone else, he gets a 5 star rating as an OL. Look in the NFL and see how many of the rosters are filled with OL that didn't go to a BCS conference team. The OL rankings don't hold up through their college careers, Urban doesn't sweat it so why should the OSU fans.

    Lol at you claiming every OL that is bigger than his competition is a 5*. If that were the case, Urbz would have no trouble pulling in 5* OL, nor would any other school in the country. Are you honestly naive enough to think high school D-lineman are all in the 270-300 range?

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    fursty13

  • BestoftheBig said...

    No offer from the Bucks though, kind of seems like scraps then. Since that's the way you decide if our OL offers are scraps, if UM doesn't offer them, then they are scraps. You guys are putting a lot of pressure on Hoke, if he doesn't contend for a NC, and soon, he must not coach well because it sure sounds like you guys get everyone you want and they are the best out there.

    As I've said on here and on the BN board, talking about recruits and scraps etc is worthless. It'll all play out on the field soon. 3-4 years down the road we can look back and see which was better, meaningless now as none of them have played a down in college.

    I'm pretty sure the #scraps thing started when a bunch of Bucknuts started calling our recruits by that derogatory reference. You guys are putting a lot of pressure on Meyer; if he doesn't contend for a NC, and soon, he must not coach well because it sure sounds like you guys get everyone you want and they are the best out there. And also he might have heart problems again, or maybe this time it's a different medical malady.

    Syrio Forel

  • BestoftheBig said...

    Landed a LOT of big fish...only UM thinks the OL is the Biggest of Fish. I'll take Urbans recruiting style, get the fastest, best Defensive players and skill position players, the OL is the biggest position that doesn't translate to their HS rankings. If a kid is bigger than everyone else, he gets a 5 star rating as an OL. Look in the NFL and see how many of the rosters are filled with OL that didn't go to a BCS conference team. The OL rankings don't hold up through their college careers, Urban doesn't sweat it so why should the OSU fans.

    Actually, it is very rare for an OL prospect to be a 5* because to acquire that rating, the prospect needs to be physically developed, in large part technically sound, and have loads of potential.

    These rankings are more often correct than wrong in projecting production, so if you have a higher rated prospect, it is more likely that that prospect will be highly productive than not. Rankings may not carry to the NFL, but that doesn't matter because you don't need to have line of NFL prospects to have a good OL in college and highly productive college career =/= NFL career in all cases.

    Like any other position, whether an OL prospect reaches his potential is almost entirely dependent on the coaching they will receive.

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    MaizeandBlue21

  • MaizeandBlue21 said...

    Actually, it is very rare for an OL prospect to be a 5* because to acquire that rating, the prospect needs to be physically developed, in large part technically sound, and have loads of potential.

    These rankings are more often correct than wrong in projecting production, so if you have a higher rated prospect, it is more likely that that prospect will be highly productive than not. Rankings may not carry to the NFL, but that doesn't matter because you don't need to have line of NFL prospects to have a good OL in college and highly productive college career =/= NFL career in all cases.

    Like any other position, whether an OL prospect reaches his potential is almost entirely dependent on the coaching they will receive.

    So what you are saying, is the ranking of the OL doesn't matter, it boils down to the coaching they receive....I totally agree. Who was the OL coach of the year last year? That team should be in good shape.

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    BestoftheBig

  • fursty13 said...

    Lol at you claiming every OL that is bigger than his competition is a 5*. If that were the case, Urbz would have no trouble pulling in 5* OL, nor would any other school in the country. Are you honestly naive enough to think high school D-lineman are all in the 270-300 range?

    I didn't say EVERY OL that is bigger is a 5*..... But just for kicks, go find me a 5* OL that is.....say....6'0" and 220lbs......

    If you think kids aren't getting some bias toward their rating based on their size then you are the naive one. That's about the only thing taken into consideration when they rate underclass OL... They aren't going to rate a HS soph highly if he is 210lbs....but let a HS Frosh be 6'6 and 280lbs, start on his HS team and all of a sudden he's on the radar, ranked highly within his class solely on the fact he's already a big SOB compared to the other freshman. So, yes, size has a lot to do with gaining a high rating. How many 5* OL recruits don't pan out in college? A Bunch......do some research.

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    BestoftheBig

  • BestoftheBig said...

    So what you are saying, is the ranking of the OL doesn't matter, it boils down to the coaching they receive....I totally agree. Who was the OL coach of the year last year? That team should be in good shape.

    But if you couple a high ranking with good coaching you have a much better line than a team that has good coaching, but doesn't have the same talent pool to work with.

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    MaizeandBlue21

  • BestoftheBig said...

    I didn't say EVERY OL that is bigger is a 5*..... But just for kicks, go find me a 5* OL that is.....say....6'0" and 220lbs......

    If you think kids aren't getting some bias toward their rating based on their size then you are the naive one. That's about the only thing taken into consideration when they rate underclass OL... They aren't going to rate a HS soph highly if he is 210lbs....but let a HS Frosh be 6'6 and 280lbs, start on his HS team and all of a sudden he's on the radar, ranked highly within his class solely on the fact he's already a big SOB compared to the other freshman. So, yes, size has a lot to do with gaining a high rating. How many 5* OL recruits don't pan out in college? A Bunch......do some research.

    Why don't you do some research and give me a list of 5* OL that WEREN'T at least solid contributors on their respective team.

    Once again, it's extremely hard for an OL prospect to gain a 5* rating, and while it can be based off from size, every BCS OL is in the 6'6" 270 range, so it's not like the rankings are based off solely their size.

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    MaizeandBlue21

  • MaizeandBlue21 said...

    But if you couple a high ranking with good coaching you have a much better line than a team that has good coaching, but doesn't have the same talent pool to work with.

    There are many factors in a kid becoming a reliable OL in college. Hell, Fragle will get drafted as an OL and he was a TE for 3 years, Urban told him he could move to OT and play, and get drafted. In one year at the position he outperformed the previous OT's we had that were very highly ranked out of HS. A lot of these guys don't truly develop until they are 20+ years old, so getting a 3* OL sometimes works out better than a kid that has been a monster since he was 15. Sometimes those kids don't work as hard as the others because they've always dominated because of their size. And you stated how many 250-270lb DL are in HS is spot on, not many so these big OL dominate easily in HS.

    Seantrel Henderson was a big deal in HS, we wanted him along with everyone else. He's just one of many that didn't deliver what was thought he would.

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    BestoftheBig

  • MaizeandBlue21 said...

    Why don't you do some research and give me a list of 5* OL that WEREN'T at least solid contributors on their respective team.

    Once again, it's extremely hard for an OL prospect to gain a 5* rating, and while it can be based off from size, every BCS OL is in the 6'6" 270 range, so it's not like the rankings are based off solely their size.

    I mentioned Henderson, but hell, take a look at the monster class OSU had a few years back with "The Brew Crew".... Brewster was the only one that was dependable. You can say coaching, and that may very well be true, but it also boils down to the kids work ethic and desire. A Lot of the highly rated HS OL don't have great work ethic as they dominate based on size difference in them and who they are blocking. I truly don't get all hyped up over a big OL recruit. I'd rather have talent at positions with ball in their hands or on the defensive side of the ball. But that's just me...

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    BestoftheBig

  • BestoftheBig said...

    There are many factors in a kid becoming a reliable OL in college. Hell, Fragle will get drafted as an OL and he was a TE for 3 years, Urban told him he could move to OT and play, and get drafted. In one year at the position he outperformed the previous OT's we had that were very highly ranked out of HS. A lot of these guys don't truly develop until they are 20+ years old, so getting a 3* OL sometimes works out better than a kid that has been a monster since he was 15. Sometimes those kids don't work as hard as the others because they've always dominated because of their size. And you stated how many 250-270lb DL are in HS is spot on, not many so these big OL dominate easily in HS.

    Seantrel Henderson was a big deal in HS, we wanted him along with everyone else. He's just one of many that didn't deliver what was thought he would.

    The point is, if you bring in the talent LSU, Michigan, Stanford, and Alabama do on the OL, add in good coaches, you are 99% more likely to have a better OL than if you don't bring in highly rated talent.

    Seantrel Henderson may not have lived up to the 5* billing, but he was still a contributor that is considered to be one the best in the ACC.

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    MaizeandBlue21

  • BestoftheBig said...

    I mentioned Henderson, but hell, take a look at the monster class OSU had a few years back with "The Brew Crew".... Brewster was the only one that was dependable. You can say coaching, and that may very well be true, but it also boils down to the kids work ethic and desire. A Lot of the highly rated HS OL don't have great work ethic as they dominate based on size difference in them and who they are blocking. I truly don't get all hyped up over a big OL recruit. I'd rather have talent at positions with ball in their hands or on the defensive side of the ball. But that's just me...

    Only two of those kids were 5*s according to Rivals and as you said, Brewster had a very good career at OSU and Mike Adams was drafted in the second round last year.

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  • MaizeandBlue21 said...

    Only two of those kids were 5*s according to Rivals and as you said, Brewster had a very good career at OSU and Mike Adams was drafted in the second round last year.

    Drafted and Good while at OSU are different things. Between the off the field trouble and giving up sacks I'd say he didn't live up to the hype.

    As you said, not too many OL get 5* ratings. So, if that is true, why is a 4* OL considered scraps??

    OSU has 14 OL on roster, how many do you need since only 5 play at a time? I'd be pissed if Urban decided to carry so many OL that we wouldn't have room for playmakers on the team.

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    BestoftheBig

  • MaizeandBlue21 said...

    The point is, if you bring in the talent LSU, Michigan, Stanford, and Alabama do on the OL, add in good coaches, you are 99% more likely to have a better OL than if you don't bring in highly rated talent.

    Seantrel Henderson may not have lived up to the 5* billing, but he was still a contributor that is considered to be one the best in the ACC.

    LSU couldn't move the ball against Bama in NC game....at all!! So that tells me that defense is more important. As the old saying goes, "If the other team doesn't score you can't lose.."

    There are no "game changers" or "playmakers" on the OL. But there are at every other postition on the field.

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    BestoftheBig

  • BestoftheBig said...

    LSU couldn't move the ball against Bama in NC game....at all!! So that tells me that defense is more important. As the old saying goes, "If the other team doesn't score you can't lose.."

    There are no "game changers" or "playmakers" on the OL. But there are at every other postition on the field.

    LOL. That was one of the best defenses in the history of college football. The chances of Ohio ever fielding a defense that good in the next 30 years are less than 1%, and guess what? That Bama team still lost earlier in the season.

    This post was edited by uguumaster on 2/11/2013 at 7:01 PM

    uguumaster

  • BestoftheBig said...

    LSU couldn't move the ball against Bama in NC game....at all!! So that tells me that defense is more important. As the old saying goes, "If the other team doesn't score you can't lose.."

    There are no "game changers" or "playmakers" on the OL. But there are at every other postition on the field.

    There may not be "game changers" on the OL, but they are technically the playmakers and without a good OL, even the best RBs will falter and the best QBs will struggle because they don't have time to make progressions.

    Yes, LSU struggled against Alabama, but that also had to do with play calling that day and Alabama certainly doesn't struggle on offense solely because of their OL. Defense can win championships, but sometimes the best defense is a good offense and if you can pound the ball and tire their defense out by owning the clock, you can win games even if you don't have an elite defense.

    Regardless, Michigan is recruiting the defensive side of the ball perfectly fine and is addressing their lack of depth at the OL position.

    Lastly, a great offensive line can make a decent running back look amazing, and that is what Michigan is aiming for, but they also have the personnel at QB, RB, and WR to compete with the best in the country. Stanford has made it successful with much less talent, I have no doubt Michigan can match their success with the last few recruiting classes.

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    MaizeandBlue21

  • BestoftheBig said...

    Drafted and Good while at OSU are different things. Between the off the field trouble and giving up sacks I'd say he didn't live up to the hype.

    As you said, not too many OL get 5* ratings. So, if that is true, why is a 4* OL considered scraps??

    OSU has 14 OL on roster, how many do you need since only 5 play at a time? I'd be pissed if Urban decided to carry so many OL that we wouldn't have room for playmakers on the team.

    The scraps comment, as stated very recently in this thread, is a joke mocking OSU fans commenting on Michigan commits. Fact is, Urban missed out on most of his plan A and B OL recruits and finished without fully addressing the need.

    You need 14 OL on a roster because there are always injuries and you'll have a tough time competing if you have 5 true freshmen replacing 5 seniors on the line. Depth in the trenches is key to winning in college football and Alabama is the golden standard for that.

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    MaizeandBlue21

  • uguumaster said...

    LOL. That was one of the best defenses in the history of college football. The chances of Ohio ever fielding a defense that good in the next 30 years are less than 1%, and guess what? That Bama team still lost earlier in the season.

    Only time will tell....It is expected that you like your team and it's chances as it is for Buck fans. Best part is we get to play every year and see what happens...

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    BestoftheBig

  • BestoftheBig said...

    LSU couldn't move the ball against Bama in NC game....at all!! So that tells me that defense is more important. As the old saying goes, "If the other team doesn't score you can't lose.."

    There are no "game changers" or "playmakers" on the OL. But there are at every other postition on the field.

    LSU's offense sucked.

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    neoavatara

  • a2brutus said...

    less then 1%, why?

    if our recruits live up to the hype then the osu d can be as good as bama's...

    because if you believe what you wrote then um has less then 1% chance of ever having an oline like bama's....

    Yeah, don't agree with that either. I bet another team fields a defense that good in the next decade. Maybe OSU, maybe Michigan, maybe someone else. But it will happen.

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    neoavatara

  • a2brutus said...

    same with oline and rb...

    every 5-10 yrs or so you get an unbelievable team (or unit) and everyone says that nobody will ever match it, and then you get bama 2012...

    I actually think TAMU's line may have been better, but regardless, Bama's OL was sick this year and their RBs are insane.

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    MaizeandBlue21

  • MaizeandBlue21 said...

    I actually think TAMU's line may have been better.

    It was and it will be again this year.

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    TAMUWolverine

  • TAMUWolverine said...

    It was and it will be again this year.

    Is Matthews moving over to LT?

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    Damaged goods

    MaizeandBlue21

  • MaizeandBlue21 said...

    Is Matthews moving over to LT?

    Probably not, Ogbuehi(our RG) will slide over to LT. He would have played there last year but obviously Joeckel had the spot locked down. Kid has 1st round LT written all over him. He was too talented to keep off the field so he played at RG. Expect Germaine Ifedi to fill in at his RG spot, from all reports he'll be really good too. Matthews younger brother will be our starting center as well. Our OL really is unfair.

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    TAMUWolverine

  • TAMUWolverine said...

    Probably not, Ogbuehi(our RG) will slide over to LT. He would have played there last year but obviously Joeckel had the spot locked down. Kid has 1st round LT written all over him. He was too talented to keep off the field so he played at RG. Expect Germaine Ifedi to fill in at his RG spot, from all reports he'll be really good too. Matthews younger brother will be our starting center as well. Our OL really is unfair.

    Seeing how good TAMU was last year, it really seems Mike Sherman was just an absolutely terrible coach. You guys seem to be loaded at the positions that matter most and really good at all the other positions. I can only imagine what a top coach like Nick Saban could do with the talent of a top Texas team like TAMU and UT.

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    MaizeandBlue21

  • MaizeandBlue21 said...

    Seeing how good TAMU was last year, it really seems Mike Sherman was just an absolutely terrible coach. You guys seem to be loaded at the positions that matter most and really good at all the other positions. I can only imagine what a top coach like Nick Saban could do with the talent of a top Texas team like TAMU and UT.

    Ole useless, sleeping Sherman...

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