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Will Meyer be left with scraps at OL?

  • MaizeKC said...

    McGovern is 6'6" - 6'7"

    I stand corrected. I realize now I was recalling Kugler's height in my mind.

    Also, the Pounceys are 6'4" each so the sub 6'6" height probably isn't the issue.

    This post was edited by richardparker10 on 2/24/2012 at 3:49 PM

    "The North shall rise again." General Meyer

    richardparker10

  • richardparker10 said...

    I stand corrected. I realize now I was recalling Kugler's height in my mind.

    Also, the Pounceys are 6'4" each so the sub 6'6" height probably isn't the issue.

    Well they were both Centers so that is different

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    Damaged goods

    MaizeandBlue21

  • maize&blue21 said...

    Well they were both Centers so that is different

    Fair point again.

    Clearly its time for me to call it quits for the day! Why I was posting at 2:30 last night when I had to be in work by 7:00 is a mystery to me, but the lack of sleep now seems to be taking its toll.

    Thanks to everyone on the board for their hospitality. Posting on this board was a pleasure, and I think this entire thread really developed quite nicely.

    "The North shall rise again." General Meyer

    richardparker10

  • richardparker10 said...

    I don't understand the late Lisle offer either. LTT was offered, though not Bosch or McGovern for whatever reason. Is it coincidence that Bosch and McGovern "only" are 6'5"? I don't know. I think generally the staff was behind the 8 ball after Bollman did nothing for OL recruiting last year and had to scramble just to fill the 2012 class post sanctions and Meyer hiring is part of the issue. Clearly you guys got a solid jump on the Midwestern OL talent and showed no mercy out of the gates for 2013, which leaves us a behind again for OL recruiting. Of course, it doesn't help that kids seem to be signing earlier every year. If either of us had even 2 commits at this time 3 years ago we would have been pumped I think.

    I don't know if Butt is a guy we would have offered at some point or not. If we likely would have then we probably dropped the ball there. He may just not have fit the prototype of what Meyer looks for in a TE either, though, even if he's otherwise a solid player. Breneman is a long shot for sure, but watching his tape you definitely can see he fits the mold of what Meyer likes in a TE. Of course, what's not to like, the guy has got crazy skills. Heuerman seems like a high probability OSU sign to me, though has attracted a ton of national interest lately so may not be a lay-up.

    Makes no sense to me why tOSU was behind the 8 ball so to speak with offering OL. Warriner was at ND so he should have known who to target along the OL.,FWIW Warriner didn't like Bosch for some reason. He offered Pocic and Elmer at a camp we had, but not Bosch. Bosch wasn't happy with this decision and deservedly so. Warriner seemed to lead him on as if he'd get an offer when he camped. I'd say Bosch had some resentment and now he's a Wolverine.

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    star69 ●

  • Interesting. Thanks for the insight. That's a very fair point that the knowledge regarding area OLs and some degree of relationships should already have been with Warriner. Of course, Warriner still would need to get Meyer on board with any recommendations, but the OL recruiting really should have been the focus out of the gate and fast-tracked.

    I recall now you were asking a bit about Foster before. All I've really heard is that he and Zaire (who historically has been considered a near OSU lock) are friends and have discussed going to college together, but I don't think they are anywhere close to being a package deal.

    There are some questions about how hard the new staff is pursuing Zaire, as well. The old staff had offered him, but the rumor is that the new staff hasn't been showing nearly as much love. We've been making a lot of QB offers so there may be some truth to the rumors. On the flip side, Zaire has discussed wrapping up the process by this summer, which would seem to be a favorable indication for OSU. The sleeper for both players could be Pitt, though. Both have been taking trips there.

    It will be interesting to see how the Federal investigation of PSU impacts the decision making of Breneman and Foster, as well. There's no way this investigation and consequences to come of it are even close to finished by national signing date next year. This is a huge shoe to drop in my mind, b/c these investigations usually only are launched after the Feds have credible information that the issues they are investigating do in fact exist (usually whistle blowers), and the subjects being investigated such as beneath the table hush money payments by the Board, etc, are really damaging. This likely will be really ugly. I take no pleasure in PSU's pain b/c a lot of people such as the players, fans, students and community at large effectively are going to be punished for the wrongdoings of some relatively smaller group.

    "The North shall rise again." General Meyer

    richardparker10

  • richardparker10 said...

    Interesting. Thanks for the insight. That's a very fair point that the knowledge regarding area OLs and some degree of relationships should already have been with Warriner. Of course, Warriner still would need to get Meyer on board with any recommendations, but the OL recruiting really should have been the focus out of the gate and fast-tracked.

    I recall now you were asking a bit about Foster before. All I've really heard is that he and Zaire (who historically has been considered a near OSU lock) are friends and have discussed going to college together, but I don't think they are anywhere close to being a package deal.

    There are some questions about how hard the new staff is pursuing Zaire, as well. The old staff had offered him, but the rumor is that the new staff hasn't been showing nearly as much love. We've been making a lot of QB offers so there may be some truth to the rumors. On the flip side, Zaire has discussed wrapping up the process by this summer, which would seem to be a favorable indication for OSU. The sleeper for both players could be Pitt, though. Both have been taking trips there.

    It will be interesting to see how the Federal investigation of PSU impacts the decision making of Breneman and Foster, as well. There's no way this investigation and consequences to come of it are even close to finished by national signing date next year. This is a huge shoe to drop in my mind, b/c these investigations usually only are launched after the Feds have credible information that the issues they are investigating do in fact exist (usually whistle blowers), and the subjects being investigated such as beneath the table hush money payments by the Board, etc, are really damaging. This likely will be really ugly. I take no pleasure in PSU's pain b/c a lot of people such as the players, fans, students and community at large effectively are going to be punished for the wrongdoings of some relatively smaller group.

    Yea, I was surprised to see tOSU offer a QB from Ohio who's name wasn't Zaire. I'd say tOSU has cooled on the kid. Interesting stuff about PSU, I'd completely forgotten they could get hammered this year likely leaving Breneman open to other schools.I was pretty surprised to see Foster schedule a visit to ND for JR day. Saw that Urbs offered Su'a Cravens today. Not use to seeing Cali kids with offers from tOSU. I think a lot more of the upper echelon Ohio kids are going to be heading out of state with Urbs going national. UM is the biggest benefactor from this, IMO. Would like to see ND hit Ohio harder, but doesn't look like we are.

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    star69 ●

  • star69 said...

    Yea, I was surprised to see tOSU offer a QB from Ohio who's name wasn't Zaire. I'd say tOSU has cooled on the kid. Interesting stuff about PSU, I'd completely forgotten they could get hammered this year likely leaving Breneman open to other schools.I was pretty surprised to see Foster schedule a visit to ND for JR day. Saw that Urbs offered Su'a Cravens today. Not use to seeing Cali kids with offers from tOSU. I think a lot more of the upper echelon Ohio kids are going to be heading out of state with Urbs going national. UM is the biggest benefactor from this, IMO. Would like to see ND hit Ohio harder, but doesn't look like we are.

    I don't see much of anything happening to PSU anytime soon. The prosecution of Sandusky will get drawn out well past 2013 NSD and I don't see the NCAA getting the full access to witnesses and documents they need until after that happens and most of the civil lawsuits are settled. It's not like the NCAA normally works quickly anyway, but the prosecutors and defense lawyers for all of the parties are going to demand that the criminal investigations and charges take priority over the NCAA's interests.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MrWoodson on 2/25/2012 at 1:33 AM

    MrWoodson

  • star69 said...

    Yea, I was surprised to see tOSU offer a QB from Ohio who's name wasn't Zaire. I'd say tOSU has cooled on the kid. Interesting stuff about PSU, I'd completely forgotten they could get hammered this year likely leaving Breneman open to other schools.I was pretty surprised to see Foster schedule a visit to ND for JR day. Saw that Urbs offered Su'a Cravens today. Not use to seeing Cali kids with offers from tOSU. I think a lot more of the upper echelon Ohio kids are going to be heading out of state with Urbs going national. UM is the biggest benefactor from this, IMO. Would like to see ND hit Ohio harder, but doesn't look like we are.

    Yeah I think Urban is going to hurt himself there by not offering some of the top Ohio kids. The coaches in that state are a tight knit group and if you turn one off you turn the whole state off.

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    Damaged goods

    MaizeandBlue21

  • Updated. What a great OL class. Enjoy our leftovers. goblue

    buttesnake

  • maize&blue21 said...

    Chris Rock is at Michigan but has been converted to a DT/SDE and has gained something like 20 lbs or so since he's been on campus. If he is going to be anything on DL he is at the right school, Michigan has 3 DL coaches who have put tons of kids into the NFL.

    On Charlton Michigan fans heard the same about Chris Wormley but when you ask the recruiting guys who saw him in person he owned the competition and they usually just ran it away from Wormley. I think we will see the true Charlton during his Senior season.

    The up side with taco is high, that being said, his biggest issue is hes been playing out of postion, I saw him play twice this yr. You dont put a 6'6 240lber at olb, thats where hes been playing, once he moves to ssde( which is where I see him) and he learns the finer points of being a dlineman I think he will be solid. I dont know of his motor as others have posted I put it more on being out of postion and not using his talent the right way. He has 4.8 speed add 30 pounds up to 270 and you got a perect ssde on paper.

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    Lord let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who seek to destroy me.If today is my day,let me die in a pile of brass

    oif_vet_brutus

  • oif_vet_brutus said...

    The up side with taco is high, that being said, his biggest issue is hes been playing out of postion, I saw him play twice this yr. You dont put a 6'6 240lber at olb, thats where hes been playing, once he moves to ssde( which is where I see him) and he learns the finer points of being a dlineman I think he will be solid. I dont know of his motor as others have posted I put it more on being out of postion and not using his talent the right way. He has 4.8 speed add 30 pounds up to 270 and you got a perect ssde on paper.

    That is exactly what I thought of him the one time I saw him play. He is not college ready yet, but his potential is virtually limitless.

    www.neoavatara.com/blog

    neoavatara

  • richardparker10 said...

    I respectfully have to disagree that Meyer had great RBs at Florida. I pulled the data from Rivals for the 2006 to 2010 classes (he was there from 2005 to the end of 2010):

    Name, height, weight, 40 time, stars, national rank

    2006 Chevon Walker – 5’10”, 185, 4.6, 4, NR Mon Williams – 6’2”, 192, 4.5, 4, NR

    2007 Chris Rainey, 5’9, 159, 4.4, 4, 89 Bo Williams, 6’1, 203 4.5, 4, NR

    2008 Jeff Demps, 5’9”, 162, 4.5, 4, 241

    2009 Mike Gillslee, 6’1”, 205, 4.4, 4, 236

    2010 Mack Brown, 5’11”, 185, 4.4, 4, 185

    That just doesn't strike me as an impressive haul, especially with respect to bigger backs, though he did indeed try to get them. In fact, I'd easily take the OSU or even UM classes over that time peirod instead. I wouldn't say the lack of production was underwhelming by any stretch given what he had to work with and the fact that Harvin was utilized effectively from the backfield a lot.

    I'd say of that group, Demps was a great home run threat and definitely produced and progressed nicely from being a track guy due to his world class speed (no way that 40 time is accurate), and Rainey was ok. In terms of development and achievement, I would be surprised if Demps could have performed better under any other coach. Demps was an edge threat, though, and I think the overall offense would have been even more insane if they'd had a guy who could run through the tackles. I think its pretty clear Meyer believes this as well and definitely wants to establish both forms of the run game. Just look how aggressively he tried to keep Dunn even though we were getting Ball and had bigger guys on the roster already, for instance. If you take a look, we have offers out to all sorts of RB shapes and sizes this year, although they all share the trait of being burners. In my mind, Meyer is trying to build the team that will be able to take down Alabama and knows he needs to be able to pound the ball to eventually be victorious.

    The focus definitely is to get another superstar like Tebow or Harvin to walk through the door. You have to say this, if one does walk through the door Meyer is going to make sure that player gets as many looks as humanely possible. If I had a gripe about the prior OSU coaching staff it was that they didn't utilize talent enough. The Meyer philosophy is to make sure the playmakers get the ball as much as possible.

    I feel pretty good that whatever OL strategy worked in the SEC should work up here in the B10, as well, due to the strength of SEC DLs. I guess we'll see, though. I don't buy into the superiority of SEC players really anywhere except for the DL, so at least for for me I have faith in whatever Meyer's OL strategy is coming from that background.

    Excellent Postclap

    MichiganFan

  • maize&blue21 said...

    Yeah I think Urban is going to hurt himself there by not offering some of the top Ohio kids. The coaches in that state are a tight knit group and if you turn one off you turn the whole state off.

    I think that might be wishful thinking on your part, though I'll grant again that the more national focus likely will help Michigan.

    Meyer is no fool, and he hit the Ohio high school coaches circuit hard when he arrived in Columbus. Most of the staff also has Ohio roots, as well, and they've paid a lot of lip service to all things Ohio. Also, as I laid out in another post, almost all of the top, top kids in Ohio and the rest of the Midwest have OSU offers. He gets it in my mind. I think ultimately as long as he continues to do that and OSU is winning a lot, the top Ohio kids naturally are going to want to come to OSU and the coaches are going to help with the process.

    Let's also look what Meyer did in Florida, where he was still able to get a lot of the top talent in the state (FSU and Miami were down at the time I'll stipulate), but then also was able to haul in the national talent, as well. I'd have to say he came out way ahead in the end. So let's say that we lose one solid Ohio kid each year because of slow-playing but pick up two national superstars in return then that seems like a more than acceptable trade-off to me.

    Other top coaches have been able to pull off the same trick, as well. Pete Carroll absolutely locked down Southern California and then hauled in National guys. Saban's national recruiting hasn't hurt his standing in AL either.

    I think the only real danger is if we don't win. Then the risk is that the national guys aren't going to have any interest in OSU, and we won't have shown the love to the 2nd tier guys in Ohio that we'd need to fill out the classes.

    "The North shall rise again." General Meyer

    richardparker10

  • MichiganFan said...

    Excellent Post

    Thanks!

    "The North shall rise again." General Meyer

    richardparker10

  • buttesnake said...

    Updated. What a great OL class. Enjoy our leftovers.

    I assume that comment was directed at me. That is a OL great class all the way across the line so congratulations.

    If the leftovers you are referring to are the other lineman then come on down to OSU Pocic, Bivin and Lisle!

    If the leftovers are that girl in your signature then thank you I will enjoy them very much.

    It looks like our two teams are essentially now going to have the opposite recruiting pitches on offense: yours will be to the skill players - "look at this line we have to protect you." Our will be to the lineman - "look at these skill players that will be around you."

    "The North shall rise again." General Meyer

    richardparker10

  • richardparker10 said...

    I assume that comment was directed at me. That is a OL great class all the way across the line so congratulations.

    If the leftovers you are referring to are the other lineman then come on down to OSU Pocic, Bivin and Lisle!

    If the leftovers are that girl in your signature then thank you I will enjoy them very much.

    It looks like our two teams are essentially now going to have the opposite recruiting pitches on offense: yours will be to the skill players - "look at this line we have to protect you." Our will be to the lineman - "look at these skill players that will be around you."

    I think the "Look at this line we have to protect you." is a better pitch because highly rated skill players are usually pretty selfish and if they aren't the first target for the ball or the ball isn't going to them they become unhappy. Also I think we may still recruit Pocic because we were supposed to take 6 OL last year and ended up with 4. Our depth is especially atrocious after this season. Bivin is headed to ND and possibly Lisle.

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    Damaged goods

    MaizeandBlue21

  • richardparker10 said...

    I assume that comment was directed at me. That is a OL great class all the way across the line so congratulations.

    If the leftovers you are referring to are the other lineman then come on down to OSU Pocic, Bivin and Lisle!

    If the leftovers are that girl in your signature then thank you I will enjoy them very much.

    It looks like our two teams are essentially now going to have the opposite recruiting pitches on offense: yours will be to the skill players - "look at this line we have to protect you." Our will be to the lineman - "look at these skill players that will be around you."

    You should remove Bivins name.

    signature image

    star69 ●

  • richardparker10 said...

    I assume that comment was directed at me. That is a OL great class all the way across the line so congratulations.

    If the leftovers you are referring to are the other lineman then come on down to OSU Pocic, Bivin and Lisle!

    If the leftovers are that girl in your signature then thank you I will enjoy them very much.

    It looks like our two teams are essentially now going to have the opposite recruiting pitches on offense: yours will be to the skill players - "look at this line we have to protect you." Our will be to the lineman - "look at these skill players that will be around you."

    Nope not directed at you. cheers

    buttesnake

  • otwp12 said...

    If Lisle commits soon I can't wait to hear how he is so much better than all of Michigan's OL commits this year. I think Lisle's offer was due to LTT and Fox committing.

    Actually he is the next Percy Harvin!

    Time2roll

  • buttesnake said...

    Nope not directed at you.

    Darn, I was hoping for the second leftovers option.

    "The North shall rise again." General Meyer

    richardparker10

  • you guys are doin great recruiting the State of Ohio right now. Way to go! just one question...is this because Michigan is having a down year or do you always look to Ohio for the talent? You seem to have quite a few more Buckeyes on your team than Ohio State has Wolverines...just asking, not trying to flame out here or anything.peace

    CMSgtBuck

  • CMSgtBuck said...

    you guys are doin great recruiting the State of Ohio right now. Way to go! just one question...is this because Michigan is having a down year or do you always look to Ohio for the talent? You seem to have quite a few more Buckeyes on your team than Ohio State has Wolverines...just asking, not trying to flame out here or anything.peace

    This is the usual. This is not a deep year in Michigan, but the elite players are too notch.

    www.neoavatara.com/blog

    neoavatara

  • neoavatara said...

    This is the usual. This is not a deep year in Michigan, but the elite players are too notch.

    The 2012 class in Michigan was much deeper, but we have some really top talent in the top 5-6 for 2013, such as Morris, Elmer and Dawson.

    MrWoodson

  • Norbit said...

    I'm not sure why any top lineman would want to play in a read-option offense. I'm sure they'll get theirs, but it seems like the top guys will be more inclined to prepare for the NFL in a prostyle system.

    Truly. Afterall we saw how it worked out for Pouncy and the other offensive lineman who Meyer put in the NFL and are successfull. Why would any potential pro lineman prospect want to play for a guy who puts lineman in the pros?

    Good question!!!

    This post was edited by Gobucks187TTUN on 2/29/2012 at 9:48 AM

    "The only thing That Team Up North will be tasting this year is the salty tears of defeat" - UFM

    Gobucks187TTUN

  • Gobucks187TTUN said...

    Truly. Afterall we saw how it worked out for Pouncy and the other offensive lineman who Meyer put in the NFL and are successfull. Why would any potential pro lineman prospect want to play for a guy who puts lineman in the pros?

    Good question!!!

    Pouncey was the exception, not the rule.

    www.neoavatara.com/blog

    neoavatara

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