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Frank C ●
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Frank C said...
This is flawed thinking imo.
Alabama has won 2 of the last 3 National Championships, produced a number of high NFL draft picks, and maintained the edge over in-state rival Auburn during Saban's tenure.
And yet Saban/Bama couldn't get Robert Nkemdiche and couldn't hold on to Reuben Foster.
My point? Recruiting is just weird. And by weird, I mean that is fluid, dirty, and unpredictable.
Moreover, Michigan had the #1 class in 1998 after it won the National Championship. And yet Michigan didn't win another National Championship in the years after.
Just know that sustained success on the field will translate to sustained success on the recruiting trail.
Lastly, Michigan winning multiple Rose Bowls is not a foregone conclusion. In fact, Michigan's winning percentage in the Rose Bowl is...to put it nicely...not good.
We are college football
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Brady Hoke said...
I never said winning Rose Bowls, just coming off of them. Alabama did get classes in the top 5 for 5 straight years or so. i believe we can do that with a year or two around the top 10, and it will put us in great position for the NC.
This is Michigan, fergodsakes.
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Maize N Blue said...
Point #1
What, we are a national recruiter, we can, have and will recruit equal to or better than USC when giving our coaches half a chance.Point #2
We do not need a rich concentration of talent in our back yard. Once our brand is back on top from the last 3/4 years we will again go anywhere, in any home, anytime and get the talent.Point #3
We will own the state of Mich and will control most of the mid-west and get who we want nationally. We will get back to where Issac would not spurn a better program with better opportunity. Michigan has done this for ever, and now with this staff we will take it up a notch.This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by Frank C on 7/15/2012 at 2:28 AM
Frank C ●
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Brady Hoke said...
I never said winning Rose Bowls, just coming off of them. Alabama did get classes in the top 5 for 5 straight years or so. i believe we can do that with a year or two around the top 10, and it will put us in great position for the NC.
This post was edited by Frank C on 7/15/2012 at 2:26 AM
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ScoutExile
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Hoke Express ●
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Hoke Express ●
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Hoke Express ●
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Frank C said...
I'm gonna be frank: you sound like a homer. And that's not a good thing.
I'll address your post point-by-point.
Point #1:Yes, Michigan is a national recruiter. However, most of Michigan's recruiting classes are comprised of Midwest recruits. For instance, take a look at Michigan 2013 class. 17 of the 22 commits are from the Midwest. That's 77%. In other words, 3 out of every 4 recruits is from the Midwest.
And Michigan will not *consistently* outrecruit USC. I don't think you understand just how enormous USC's recruiting advantage is. Just look back at USC's recruiting classes under Pete Carroll. IIRC, Michigan never ranked ahead of USC when Carroll was HC.
But Michigan's goal should not be to outrecruit USC. It shouldn't even be build top-5 classes. (All that is just pageantry for the messageboard fans.)
The coaches should be focused in identifying talented players that fit Michigan's scheme, building enduring relationships, and then getting them to believe in Michigan's values.
Just think back to the 2007 Rose Bowl between USC and Michigan. On paper, USC had "outrecruited" Michigan. And yet, the two teams were about even (despite what the final score said). In retrospect, Michigan had as much NFL talent as USC did that year. But USC made better adjustments and executed better. Hence, USC won comfortably in the 2nd half.
Point #2:No. We won't.
Michigan won't "go anywhere, in any home, anytime and get the talent." For instance, notice that Montravius Adama (a 5 star DT from the South) verbally expressed interest in Michigan. However, the Michigan coaches didn't reciprocate the interest despite Adams being a prospect at a position of need. Why? Because our coaches will not waste time and money chasing longshots.
Yes, Michigan doesn't need a rich concentration of talent to succeed. But it certainly would've made Michigan's recruiting much easier if Michigan enjoyed a LSU-like recruiting advantage or a USC-like recruiting advantage.
Point #3:- Michigan already owns the state of Michigan. (Duh!) - And the Michigan coaches have moved quickly to make the Midwest its primary focus. This was a brilliant strategy because recruiting, at times, can be like a zero sum game.
But there will always be recruits that leave the Midwest for another conference. For instance, look at Ethan Pocic. He had a chance to be part of Michigan's program but because he waited, he was left out. Moreover, Pocic seemed more interested than Michigan's other OL targets in exploring what SEC schools had to offer.
---
In closing, Michigan is not God's gift to the college football world. There are schools out there that can offer a lot of the same things that Michigan can offer. For instance, USC.
This post was edited by Brady Hoke on 7/15/2012 at 12:40 AM
We are college football
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Frank C said...
I'm gonna be frank: you sound like a homer. And that's not a good thing.
I'll address your post point-by-point.
Point #1: Yes, Michigan is a national recruiter. However, most of Michigan's recruiting classes are comprised of Midwest recruits. For instance, take a look at Michigan 2013 class. 17 of the 22 commits are from the Midwest. That's 77%. In other words, 3 out of every 4 recruits is from the Midwest.
And Michigan will not *consistently* outrecruit USC. I don't think you understand just how enormous USC's recruiting advantage is. Just look back at USC's recruiting classes under Pete Carroll. IIRC, Michigan never ranked ahead of USC when Carroll was HC.
But Michigan's goal should not be to outrecruit USC. It shouldn't even be to build top-5 classes. (All that is just pageantry for the messageboard fans.)
The coaches should be focused in identifying talented players that fit Michigan's scheme, building enduring relationships, and then getting them to believe in Michigan's values.
Just think back to the 2007 Rose Bowl between USC and Michigan. On paper, USC had "outrecruited" Michigan. And yet, the two teams were about even (despite what the final score said). In retrospect, Michigan had as much NFL talent as USC did that year. But USC made better adjustments and executed better. Hence, USC won comfortably in the 2nd half.
Point #2: No. We won't.
Michigan won't "go anywhere, in any home, anytime and get the talent." For instance, notice that Montravius Adama (a 5 star DT from the South) verbally expressed interest in Michigan. However, the Michigan coaches didn't reciprocate the interest despite Adams being a prospect at a position of need. Why? Because our coaches will not waste time and money chasing longshots.
Yes, Michigan doesn't need a rich concentration of talent to succeed. But it certainly would've made Michigan's recruiting much easier if Michigan enjoyed a LSU-like recruiting advantage or a USC-like recruiting advantage.
Point #3: - Michigan already owns the state of Michigan. (Duh!) - And the Michigan coaches have moved quickly to make the Midwest its primary focus. This was a brilliant strategy because recruiting, at times, can be like a zero sum game.
But there will always be recruits that leave the Midwest for another conference. For instance, look at Ethan Pocic. He had a chance to be part of Michigan's program but because he waited, he was left out. Moreover, Pocic seemed more interested than Michigan's other OL targets in exploring what SEC schools had to offer.
---
In closing, Michigan is not God's gift to the college football world. There are schools out there that can offer a lot of the same things that Michigan can offer. For instance, USC.
Obviously my friend you love to argue!
My point has not and will not change.
As we win we will again recruit nationally as we own the mid-west.
That was my point from the beginning. Furthermore I am not a homer,
I am someone who has supported this program since 1963.I have seen tremendous recruiting and the failed years of RR. I was
saddened the last few years of Carr's leadership seeing how our recruiting
diminished and Martin's sad leadership with the coaching transition.What you do not understand is after coaching high school ball in south
Florida for 10 years I understand the money thrown about the SEC and
yes even USC. More is thrown around now than ever. Auburn leads the
SEC right now!Yes I understand the advantages USC has. But we have advantages
and benefits they cannot compare. They will get their kids, period.
But when we get our kids and when we are winning and rocking, Bama,
USC and others will will be challenged again.
This post was edited by Maize N Blue on 7/15/2012 at 9:01 AM
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MichRedWingFan7 ●
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Maize N Blue said...
Obviously my friend you love to argue!
My point has not and will not change.
As we win we will again recruit nationally as we own the mid-west.
That was my point from the beginning. Furthermore I am not a homer,
I am someone who has supported this program since 1963.I have seen tremendous recruiting and the failed years of RR. I was
saddened the last few years of Carr's leadership seeing how our recruiting
diminished and Martin's sad leadership with the coaching transition.What you do not understand is after coaching high school ball in south
Florida for 10 years I understand the money thrown about the SEC and
yes even USC. More is thrown around now than ever. Auburn leads the
SEC right now!Yes I understand the advantages USC has. But we have advantages
and benefits they cannot compare. They will get their kids, period.
But when we get our kids and when we are winning and rocking, Bama,
USC and others will will be challenged again. -
YuanT said...
I'll start by presenting an olive branch by saying that my following questions stem from genuine curiosity. You and many others have talked about money changing hands in the recruiting game. My question is, if it's so well known, why is it so hard to prove? Why aren't people actually taking some time to investigate? If they are, why aren't they finding anything?
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Mich&RedWingFan said...
I think there is one more thing that will be necessary along with winning that will help level the playing field recruiting wise with Bama. Other conferences need to step up and win National Championships. If the SEC continues its steak of winning championship after championship, the national media will continue their slurp fest and keep the impression that the BEST of the BEST play in the SEC. It will make it harder and harder to get the elite kids out of SEC territory if they see the results of SEC winning all their life and the media keeps pounding it into their heads. I have no doubt that we will do well regardless but until our conference or others start winning, I have a feeling at least 1 SEC team will always outrecruit us. I am extremely happy with this class and the head start we have going with 2014 so I could be wrong about my post but I feel these kids are impressionable and the way it is going, the media will only continue to get more and more biased towards the SEC and against all the other conferences until they are dethroned.
I agree with you and I love this staff. They are incredible and they are re-establishing a renascence of Michigan Football and possibly stepping up to a new level! I too am excited!
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Mich&RedWingFan said...
I think there is one more thing that will be necessary along with winning that will help level the playing field recruiting wise with Bama. Other conferences need to step up and win National Championships. If the SEC continues its steak of winning championship after championship, the national media will continue their slurp fest and keep the impression that the BEST of the BEST play in the SEC. It will make it harder and harder to get the elite kids out of SEC territory if they see the results of SEC winning all their life and the media keeps pounding it into their heads. I have no doubt that we will do well regardless but until our conference or others start winning, I have a feeling at least 1 SEC team will always outrecruit us. I am extremely happy with this class and the head start we have going with 2014 so I could be wrong about my post but I feel these kids are impressionable and the way it is going, the media will only continue to get more and more biased towards the SEC and against all the other conferences until they are dethroned.
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Awink2 said...
-Why shouldn't the media be biased? Ostensibly, empirically and objectively, the SEC has dominated the past 6 years by winning every national championship, they are currently the best conference, and you cant spin it any other way!
-There are enough recruits to go around for 1 program in the SEC to out-recruit usThis post was edited by kylebennett7127 on 7/15/2012 at 1:12 PM
kylebennett7127
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Awink2 said...
-Why shouldn't the media be biased? Ostensibly, empirically and objectively, the SEC has dominated the past 6 years by winning every national championship, they are currently the best conference, and you cant spin it any other way!
-There are enough recruits to go around for 1 program in the SEC to out-recruit us kylebennett7127
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kylebennett7127 said...
I can not possibly agree more with frank. Speak softly and carry a big stick. That should be our motto. Hoke is doing fantastic, but there are a ton of things that go into recruiting and top classes do not buy championships. I love the enthusiasm but we probably win 8 games or 9 this year(which is not bad given the brutal schedule).
You know I agree really, I love how we are dominating the mi-west recruiting and picking and choosing the remainder of the country. Sure, other schools will get their kids. But Hoke & co will be successful. All in all when they get on campus with the coaches it is obvious that Michigan is special.
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Awink2 said...
-Why shouldn't the media be biased? Ostensibly, empirically and objectively, the SEC has dominated the past 6 years by winning every national championship, they are currently the best conference, and you cant spin it any other way! -There are enough recruits to go around for 1 program in the SEC to out-recruit us
This post was edited by Maize N Blue on 7/15/2012 at 1:42 PM
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Maize N Blue said...
You know I agree really, I love how we are dominating the mi-west recruiting and picking and choosing the remainder of the country. Sure, other schools will get their kids. But Hoke & co will be successful. All in all when they get on campus with the coaches it is obvious that Michigan is special.
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When Michigan introduces our pro set WCO that is when