Wolverine247 Board

The point isn't a 3 year window. It is about the foreseeable future. MSU football's run was necessarily temporary. The same with Indiana BB's bad years. Some current runs are not sustainable. Miami, etc. Michigan being as good or better than MSU in BB has no indications of being temporary. None.

So, the gap is closed going forward and there is no legit reason to think that it is temporary.

We shall see what happens over the next 4-5 years. Izzo and MSU have a huge body of work to support the strength of our program. MSU BB is one of the top 5-6 programs in the country. Michigan has a very long way to go to be at that level. And if Burke goes pro, there is no doubt that we be a significant setback. MSU reloads regularly. Harris will likely be one of the best players in the country next year as will Payne if he stays.

I'm not saying that Michigan BB hasn't gone to a new level this year, no doubt this is your best team in ages and Beilein is recruiting very well.

Sorry, but MSU isn't a top 5-6 program. Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, UCLA and Indiana holdthat distinction. MSU is in the next tier with programs like Syracuse, Louisville, Florida, Arizona, UConn...

Also, there is a chance that Payne and Harris go pro. MSU losing 3 starters (their 2 best inside players and their best perimeter player) with nobody coming in this class to help next year.

UCLA in 2013 is a top 5-6 program? Indiana? I guess you mean historically. Just look at the record over the last 15 years. Only UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky (since Cal took over) and maybe UConn have done better. Why is it that UM fans don't want to admit how great MSU's BB program is?

It's not a matter of this year. Beilein has been Matching MSU this year and the previous couple seasons. Thanks to the nature of CBB, that means almost complete turnover and still matching Izoo. Plus, the high level of talent continues to role in.

You may want to talk about where MSU ranks over some arbitrary period of time. That is a different discussion. Right now enough time has passed to show that through turnover, against MSU's top coach and typical teams, Michigan s on par and nothing indicates it is an aberration. The gap is closed going forward.

Oh I see, you're using the typical MSU time frame adjustments.

MSU has been very good, great if you want. But talking about the top programs, they fall behind the others mentioned and are grouped with the second tier ones. That isn't downplaying MSU, just recognizing how the other programs are viewed nationally.

The proof is in the pudding. MSU BB is elite and will be for the foreseeable future. 2 years for UM is a short window. I'm not saying this is an aberration but only time will tell if UM's program will be on the same elite level as MSU's.

3 years. It's been on the same level for three years. And, it wasn't a fluke UM player nor was it an experimental MSU coach. Izoo is not going to be fired and Have MSU rise to new heights with a new coach.

You want to talk about "being elite" and that is a comparison of the historical gap. Different conversation. UM has been on the same level as MSU for three years and it is not about one player or coach. The program has "caught up."

Ask anyone who knows the game of football and Michigan's reputation is one of the very best.

Do me a favor and ask any Spartan if they concur.

Reputation means nothing. What happens on the field is what is important. I'm a Spartan and I agree that UM has a great football reputation. That does not mean the program on the field at this point in time lives up to that reputation. IMO all talk about history is just to make people feel good about their sports programs when there is nothing else to talk about.

No one can predict the future, but there are things you can anticipate within reason. Michigan FB will be different once hoke type players are old enough. MSU is not likely to get a better CBB coach or level of player in the future.

Simply put, there is no coaching, player, recruiting, play style or other major transition in store for UM or MSU in BB. That means there is no reasonable basis to think that the current equality will change one way or the other. The gap is closed going forward.

What can MSU fans say about FB? That they drew even when everyone in the b10 was beating up on RichRod? That was clearly an aberration to all. It is akin to saying that Baylor football with RGIII was their sustainable level. Or Indiana State basketball with Larry Bird. The RichRod experiment can't be evidence MSU is and will be on the same level as UM FB.

Football, by its very nature, requires a couple years to get up and running after a complete style change. It is not a sport that frosh can easily impact. Once MSU can beat a UM program humming along at its typical level, then talk to me about MSU matching UM.