Wolverine247 Board

I think it all depends on your opinion of what is significant to a basketball program. Typically (as you noted) the major measures are: record, head-to-head games, recruiting, and NCAA Tournament performance. Michigan holds up pretty well in these categories over the last few years. However, some other important characteristics to measure in terms of programs are name recognition, facilities, and home court advantage. These are typically the factors that separate the truly elite programs from the teams that are good for a couple of years and fall off. These things were major factors in the return of IU to prominence and are some of the major reasons why programs like UNC and Duke never fall off.

As someone noted, Michigan has made major strides in facilities and this is something that has already payed dividends in terms of recruiting. Having top notch facilities can keep your recruiting up, even if the success on the court isn't quite there. The name recognition is also certainly going up as well. Michigan is playing big games on an almost a weekly basis, getting covered in the national media, and is being talked about as one of the best teams in the nation. The home court advantage and attendance are improving as well (anyone who goes to the games can attest to this). The one thing to consider is that these categories take years to establish. I think Michigan has really picked it up and closed the gap on MSU, but I'm not totally convinced that they are on the same level as programs. In 4-5 years? Maybe, but as programs, Michigan still has a little work to do, at least in my opinion.

This year will be big. He hasn't had top talent in years past, this years UM team is legit in the top group of 5-6 that should be expecting a final 4.

Also good to see you posting PK.

I think we should wait until march. If the basketball team gets eaten alive in the tournament like msu did in their bowl game in 2010, then the comparisons will be made that we are not quite there yet.

MSU starts a freshman (Harris) and has two quality freshman coming off the bench in Costello and Valentine. Dawson and Trice are sophomores, and Payne is a junior. The only senior is Nix who will be a big loss. Yes Michigan has a lot of freshman but if Burke leaves that's a big loss that will be impossible to completely replace. If Payne goes pro for MSU that would really hurt.

Agree that Burke will be impossible to replace. And Hardaway will be a big loss too. But everyone else who returns will almost certainly get better, especially the five freshmen (McGary, GRIII, Stauskus, Levert, Albrecht). And we have several highly talented FR coming in. The team will be less centered around one player (Burke) but it will be very talented and very deep. We shouldn't take a major step back as a team and if our bigs (esp McGary) learn to play better in the paint, both offensively and defensively, we could actually be a better team next year. We could be next year's IU.

As in four months younger?

How much of MSU's scoring depends on true frosh? How about UM. Just because MSU has Costello on the bench doesn't mean they are a young team.

I expect Michigan to be a top-15 maybe even top-10 team next season.

I think Derrick Walton will be exactly what next year's team will need - a distributor that can score when needed. Walton has been described as a true point guard and his highlight videos attest to that reputation.

But we will need more ball handlers that can attack the basket, finish at the rim, collapse defenses, and create for themselves or others. That will go a long way in making the team more dynamic and harder to defend.

At times, this Michigan team is too reliant on Burke to create off the bounce. I'm hoping that Stauskas and Robinson (in particular) will improve considerably this off-season and become capable of running the team in a pinch to take the pressure off of Walton.

And that is without NS most of the game. He was replaced by a frosh, but they would have probably increased the numbers a bit with Nick in there

Freshmen minutes were even higher during the stretch Jordan Morgan was out with the ankle injury. For example, in the first UM-MSU game in EL, the freshmen minutes were:

UM 98
MSU 65

I see a distinction between teams and programs, teams relate to players and classes, programs go beyond that. MSU football was the better team than us 2008-2010 and arguably 2011 but we still have had the better football program. Similarly, I think MSU can be said to have the better basketball program until we can continuously match them or outdo them in all aspects including Final Fours and so forth over a longer time span.

If it was just about players then you could easily make every year the point of comparison as especially in hoops every year the team has a different identity. But then you'd have to say Miami has the better program than UNC but that's silly.