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Taylor Lewan vs. Will Gholston

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Well, then Borges really isn't good at making in-game adjustments. If an OT is completely erasing a DE play after play, what offense wouldn't take advantage of that? Either that, or the UM coaches weren't seeing the same things that you guys are.

    The problem with this whole discussion is that the clip doesn't show very many plays. If it does show every play where Lewan and Gholston matched up, then that particular match up didn't have much of an impact on the game. I would guess that Gholston will be moved around even more this year. I would also guess that MSU will (try to) force DRob to throw and not to let him run around. Part of that defense emphasizes that DEs not bull rush every time, but stand their ground (more or less) and let LB's make tackles. The scheme worked very well last year.

    NigelUno

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    "SpartanRocky said...

    Another observation from tRCMB is that many plays were run away from Lewan."

    Watching that video, I didn't see them running away from Gholston over and over. Did you see that?

    lol The video only has about 15 plays, so you can't see them doing anything "over and over." The sample is too much too small to see playcalling tendencies.

    In the video, there weren't any running plays that went right at Gholston. Was that by design or was it just a coincidence? I have no idea. We would have to see a video with all of the plays where Gholston lined up on the other side against the right tackle to know for sure.

    signature image

    We are not the same, I am a Spartan

    msusnee

  • msusnee said...

    lol The video only has about 15 plays, so you can't see them doing anything "over and over." The sample is too much too small to see playcalling tendencies.

    In the video, there weren't any running plays that went right at Gholston. Was that by design or was it just a coincidence? I have no idea. We would have to see a video with all of the plays where Gholston lined up on the other side against the right tackle to know for sure.

    So they weren't running away from Gholston. Thanks.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    So they weren't running away from Gholston. Thanks.

    Nor, were they running right at him.

    If an OT was dominating a DE, I think you would see a few (or any) running plays which would show that.

    Maybe MSU moved Gholston to the other side if they thought UM was going to run the ball. Hard to tell without watching the whole game.

    This post was edited by NigelUno on 6/13/2012 at 4:22 PM

    NigelUno

  • This thread is dumb. MSU won the game that is all that matters. Who the f*ck cares about Lewan and Gholston's individual matchup(which looked like a stalemate at least from my perspective). Both are great players, both will be first round picks whenever they choose to leave their respective schools.

    TheDudeAbides21

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    So they weren't running away from Gholston. Thanks.

    That's not what I said. I said that you couldn't tell based on 15 plays. You would have to look at the full game to know whether they were running away from him.

    signature image

    We are not the same, I am a Spartan

    msusnee

  • NigelUno said...

    Nor, were they running right at him.

    If an OT was dominating a DE, I think you would see a few (or any) running plays which would show that.

    You saw the domination by Gholston lashing out and drawing penalties. He was ineffective and he couldn't contain his frustration. Well, maybe you can't see it, but non-sparty fans saw it.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    "SpartanRocky said...

    Another observation from tRCMB is that many plays were run away from Lewan."

    Watching that video, I didn't see them running away from Gholston over and over. Did you see that?

    Like I said, the pass-plays were either roll-outs away from Gholston or short straight drops. The running plays were either run up the middle, or away from Gholston. It wasn't as though every play was run away from him, but after watching it again, it didn't look like any where run in his direction.

    Michigan State does not and will not run the 3-4 defense.

    SpartanRocky

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    You saw the domination by Gholston lashing out and drawing penalties. He was ineffective and he couldn't contain his frustration. Well, maybe you can't see it, but non-sparty fans saw it.

    Im a Michigan fan and I didn't see Gholston get dominated. I saw our offensive line get dominated though... Huyge and Omameh were getting pushed backwards on damn near every play.

    This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 6/13/2012 at 4:29 PM

    TheDudeAbides21

  • SpartanRocky said...

    Like I said, the pass-plays were either roll-outs away from Gholston or short straight drops. The running plays were either run up the middle, or away from Gholston. It wasn't as though every play was run away from him, but after watching it again, it didn't look like any where run in his direction.

    It wasn't like every play was ran away from him either. Also, a right-handed QB is naturally more effective throwing rolling out to his right. On straight drops, it wasn't Gholston putting pressure on the QB either. Some of it I would imagine was by design to keep contain, but it wasn't like Gholston was getting off of the block of Lewan when he wanted to.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • TheDudeAbides21 said...

    This thread is dumb. MSU won the game that is all that matters. Who the f*ck cares about Lewan and Gholston's individual matchup(which looked like a stalemate at least from my perspective). Both are great players, both will be first round picks whenever they choose to leave their respective schools.

    Because a lot has been made of how good/bad Gholston is from both fanbases. In my experiences many MSU fans think he has been/will be extremely dominate. I even read one comment that said that Worthy won't be missed because Gholston was the one that really made things go. (I don't believe that's the majority opinion of MSU fans though.)

    Many Michigan fans, some likely under the influence of MGoblog's opinion on the subject, don't think that Gholston is anywhere close to the player that MSU fans make him out to be. I'm assuming this video is that groups attempt at evidence of this.

    Personally I think he has a lot of talent, a lot of physical ability and a very high ceiling... but I haven't seen him consistently put it together on the field. If/when he does I think he'll be dominate and I'll hate playing against him and certainly live up to that first round pick billing you think he will. Right now though? I don't see him going in the first round..

    This post was edited by theyellowdart on 6/13/2012 at 4:38 PM

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    You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

    theyellowdart

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    You saw the domination by Gholston lashing out and drawing penalties. He was ineffective and he couldn't contain his frustration. Well, maybe you can't see it, but non-sparty fans saw it.

    IF Gholston was dominated, it sure didn't show up in any running plays that went his way.

    IF Gholston was dominated, it ranks pretty low as far as what was significant to an objective person.

    IF Gholston was dominated, there sure were an awful lot of players picking up the slack for him (and most of those players are back).

    NigelUno

  • TheDudeAbides21 said...

    Im a Michigan fan and I didn't see Gholston get dominated. I saw our offensive line get dominated though... Huyge and Omameh were getting pushed backwards on damn near every play.

    You're probably right, I mean Gholston did record 3 tackles in the game.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • NigelUno said...

    IF Gholston was dominated, it sure didn't show up in any running plays that went his way.

    IF Gholston was dominated, it ranks pretty low as far as what was significant to an objective person.

    IF Gholston was dominated, there sure were an awful lot of players picking up the slack for him (and most of those players are back).

    Of course, and Gholston lashed out because he claims someone called him Tom. Nothing to do with him being dominated by Lewan.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • maize&blue21 said...

    It's because you guys don't want to accept the fact that Lewan owned Gholston and are making up excuses why your poster child wasn't able to get by Lewan.

    It's because you guys don't want to accept the fact that Lewan needed to commit penalties to have a chance against Gholston on 15 of Gholston's probable 40 or so plays, even when the point of attack was on the other side of the line from Gholston, or Gholston was playing back-side contain.

    Beardy

  • theyellowdart said...

    Because a lot has been made of how good/bad Gholston is from both fanbases. In my experiences many MSU fans think he has been/will be extremely dominate. I even read one comment that said that Worthy won't be missed because Gholston was the one that really made things go. (I don't believe that's the majority opinion of MSU fans though.)

    Many Michigan fans, some likely under the influence of MGoblog's opinion on the subject, don't think that Gholston is anywhere close to the player that MSU fans make him out to be. I'm assuming this video is that groups attempt at evidence of this.

    Personally I think he has a lot of talent, a lot of physical ability and a very high ceiling... but I haven't seen him consistently put it together on the field. If/when he does I think he'll be dominate and I'll hate playing against him and certainly live up to that first round pick billing you think he will. Right now though? I don't see him going in the first round..

    Gholston looked pretty dominate at the end of the season especially against Nebraska, Iowa, and Georgia. I think he is a first round pick waiting to happen.

    TheDudeAbides21

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    You're probably right, I mean Gholston did record 3 tackles in the game.

    Just because he only had 3 tackles does not mean he was dominated. Worthy didn't do much either that game... I don't think he was dominated.

    TheDudeAbides21

  • TheDudeAbides21 said...

    Gholston looked pretty dominate at the end of the season especially against Nebraska, Iowa, and Georgia. I think he is a first round pick waiting to happen.

    Agreed. He is a phenomenal athlete and will be an early first round pick.

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • TheDudeAbides21 said...

    Just because he only had 3 tackles does not mean he was dominated. Worthy didn't do much either that game... I don't think he was dominated.

    Worthy disrupted the flow of the offense, Gholston didn't. shrug

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • TheDudeAbides21 said...

    Gholston looked pretty dominate at the end of the season especially against Nebraska, Iowa, and Georgia. I think he is a first round pick waiting to happen.


    I think he's a first round pick if/when he gets consistent. If his Jr year is the same as last year and he declares... ignoring possible Combine/Camp boosts, he's not going in the first round.

    Now... obviously he should be better in his Jr year and I expect him to be and I honestly expect him to eventually become a first round pick. But right now... don't see it.

    Just my opinion though.

    signature image signature image signature image

    You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

    theyellowdart

  • theyellowdart said...

    I think he's a first round pick if/when he gets consistent. If his Jr year is the same as last year and he declares... ignoring possible Combine/Camp boosts, he's not going in the first round.

    Now... obviously he should be better in his Jr year and I expect him to be and I honestly expect him to eventually become a first round pick. But right now... don't see it.

    Just my opinion though.

    Thats fine... your entitled to your opinion I just disagree. I think he is a first round pick right now.

    TheDudeAbides21

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Worthy disrupted the flow of the offense, Gholston didn't. shrug

    How so?

    Earlier you said..." You're probably right, I mean Gholston did record 3 tackles in the game" to sarcastically rebut the idea that Gholston DIDN'T get dominated because he recorded only 3 tackles. But, Worthy had less tackles.

    And, didn't Worthy come off the field on most long passing downs (which there were plenty of)?

    How did Gholston get dominated if plays were not run in his direction? If an OT was dominating a DE, it would make sense to expose that by running right at him, right? Did you see that on film?

    Do you not understand that MSU loves to blitz, and that DEs aren't bull rushing all the time (and are used to contain)? This method worked pretty well, and pretty much shut down your ability to rush the ball. If your lone consolation in this is that you think Gholston got dominated, then you aren't paying attention to the rest of the action on the field. If you controlled Gholston and Worthy, it came with a pretty big price.

    NigelUno

  • NigelUno said...

    How so?

    Earlier you said..." You're probably right, I mean Gholston did record 3 tackles in the game" to sarcastically rebut the idea that Gholston DIDN'T get dominated because he recorded only 3 tackles. But, Worthy had less tackles.

    And, didn't Worthy come off the field on most long passing downs (which there were plenty of)?

    How did Gholston get dominated if plays were not run in his direction? If an OT was dominating a DE, it would make sense to expose that by running right at him, right? Did you see that on film?

    Do you not understand that MSU loves to blitz, and that DEs aren't bull rushing all the time (and are used to contain)? This method worked pretty well, and pretty much shut down your ability to rush the ball. If your lone consolation in this is that you think Gholston got dominated, then you aren't paying attention to the rest of the action on the field. If you controlled Gholston and Worthy, it came with a pretty big price.

    Lewan controlled Gholston, that was clear to see.

    As for the other guys along the line, well they were beat repeatedly, nobody is claiming otherwise. shrug

    xxmgobluexx ●

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    Lewan controlled Gholston, that was clear to see.

    As for the other guys along the line, well they were beat repeatedly, nobody is claiming otherwise. shrug

    To be clear, you're saying Worthy disrupted the flow of the offense (even though he had less tackles than Gholston)...but even though no running plays went at Gholston, that Gholston didn't disrupt anything?

    Was Worthy disrupting the flow towards or away from Gholston?

    I mean...it seems like you're saying that one player can disrupt the offense by containing (and letting other players make tackles), but that a different player can't do the same thing?

    NigelUno

  • NigelUno said...

    To be clear, you're saying Worthy disrupted the flow of the offense (even though he had less tackles than Gholston)...but even though no running plays went at Gholston, that Gholston didn't disrupt anything?

    Was Worthy disrupting the flow towards or away from Gholston?

    I mean...it seems like you're saying that one player can disrupt the offense by containing (and letting other players make tackles), but that a different player can't do the same thing?

    Well this whole argument is based on a few false things: first the assumption that plays were not run to Gholston's side because of Gholston. None of us know why exactly didn't run to that side. Could have been Gholston, could have been a strong side LB, could have been that they felt throwing 40+ was the most effective game plan. Second, the video is only Gholston vs. Lewan. How did Gholston do the rest of the game? Just because UM didn't run right at Gholston when isolated on Lewan, doesn't mean they didn't run at his side any other time during the game.

    MercuryHayes

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