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Michigan defense: 2012 preview

  • Scooter305 said...

    I guess we are just looking at this differently. I will use this analogy.

    You are basing your grade off of 1 test. A very hard test. Whatever you get on that test is your grade.

    I am basing the grade off a body of work. Many tests throughout the year. A pop quiz here or there. Homework assignments. Some of these are going to be easy and some are going to be hard. Either way you are graded on your body of work throughout the year.

    I can see where your coming from, but we play teams other than Bama. We may be a C compared to Bama. I am looking at the whole season, and like last year we will be above average. We lost 1 guy from a top 25 secondary statistically. There are 120 teams we are compared against. This secondary is above average compared to 120 teams. It is that simple.

    This secondary may be a C when compared only to Bama like you are trying to do.

    just for clarification, I only mentioned bama as being analogous to how our TEAM will measure up, not just the secondary. The reason for this is because I said in order to know where you stand you should measure yourself against talent. OSU and vtech were arguably the most talented teams we faced last yr and they both exposed our secondary. That was the original point I was making against you. Bama will be a measuring stick as a team as a whole, I agree it won't be a final grade but its still a barometer to where we need to be as a team. To me its pointless to compare yourself against anything thats not the best. being from NY, if I said a pizza spot is rated an A in the nation but only based that on pizza I had in ohio, or should I based it against the best pizza I had in the nation? If I base it off the best pizza I had in the US and its a C, isn't that more accurate?

    This post was edited by Luger on 8/10/2012 at 10:31 AM

    Luger

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    I see your points, but I disagree with downplaying the accomplishments of the DBs.

    Michigan had the 16th ranked pass defense in the nation last year, at 190.5 ypg. Michigan gave up only 12 TDS through the air, with 9 INTs. In conference play only,

    UM's opponents in 2011 in Passing average national rank.. not exactly murders row vs the pass

    WMU- 8... MAC inflation
    ND- 33... gave up 315
    EMU- 115
    SDSU- 64
    Minny- 108
    NW- 35... gave up 331
    MSU- 44... played well
    Purdue- 82
    Iowa- 56
    ILL- 91
    Neb- 103
    OSU- 116
    VT- 66

    Or a National Average of 71

    So the only top 50 passing offenses UM faced were a MAC team, MSU (with high winds, but shut it down), NW and ND and the latter two put up bunch of yards..

    So those stats you listed can be deceiving based on who UM actually faced that was capable of throwing the ball in 2011

    HouseDivided

  • Clint Brewster said...

    I guess I'm comparing them to every team in the BCS. I watched every game multiple times from last season, the spring game, read every college football preview magazine, also got opinions from an NFL scout and talked to several current or former college coaches. I did my homework before writing the offensive preview and the defensive preview.

    We can agree to disagree then. I am fine with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    At C+ that puts us in the 59-52 ranked secondary range. A group that collectively was in the range of 22-27 last year. With losing only 1 guy, bringing in some good talent, and having another year in a new defensive scheme, I simply disagree that they will drop roughly 25 spots from last year. I guess only time will tell.

    Scooter305

  • HouseDivided said...

    UM's opponents in 2011 in Passing average national rank.. not exactly murders row vs the pass

    WMU- 8... MAC inflation ND- 33... gave up 315 EMU- 115 SDSU- 64 Minny- 108 NW- 35... gave up 331 MSU- 44... played well Purdue- 82 Iowa- 56 ILL- 91 Neb- 103 OSU- 116 VT- 66

    Or a National Average of 71

    So the only top 50 passing offenses UM faced were a MAC team, MSU (with high winds, but shut it down), NW and ND and the latter two put up bunch of yards..

    So those stats you listed can be deceiving based on who UM actually faced that was capable of throwing the ball in 2011

    You can only compare with who they have played. Would the #1 defense in the county, LSU have fared as well in a pass happy conference suck as the Big 12? I know their defense is very good but I think their number would have been a little different in the Big 12 than the SEC as fair as pass defense.

    Scooter305

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  • HouseDivided said...

    UM's opponents in 2011 in Passing average national rank.. not exactly murders row vs the pass

    WMU- 8... MAC inflation ND- 33... gave up 315 EMU- 115 SDSU- 64 Minny- 108 NW- 35... gave up 331 MSU- 44... played well Purdue- 82 Iowa- 56 ILL- 91 Neb- 103 OSU- 116 VT- 66

    Or a National Average of 71

    So the only top 50 passing offenses UM faced were a MAC team, MSU (with high winds, but shut it down), NW and ND and the latter two put up bunch of yards..

    So those stats you listed can be deceiving based on who UM actually faced that was capable of throwing the ball in 2011

    Welcome MSU fan.

    So they faced on average, the 71st best passing offense. With 120 teams in the NCAA, would you expect an average defense to have the 49th ranked pass defense? Michigan played above that, they ended up with the 16th best passing defense.

    Looking at it another way, if you add together the per game averages for Michigan's opponents, they have a combined 2748 yards total for the season (VT 226.1 + OSU 127 + Neb 162.7...). Michigan as a whole gave up 2476 yards passing, almost 300 yards less that what those teams averaged.

    Looks like a slightly better than average unit coming back, especially with the extra year in the same system for the first time for all of the guys.

    xxmgobluexx

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    xxmgobluexx

  • I don't care about anything other than scoring defense. That's all that matters in football and Mattison has said this many of time in his interviews. If we give up 300 yds a game passing and we win...AWESOME. If we give up 90 yds game passing and we lose....UH OH. It's all relative and everyone from the D Line to D Coordinator to the Offense has a hand in how the pass defense will be. Obviously if we're playing from behind a lot then the other teams will be running the ball in the later quarters. If we're winning then they'll be playing catch up.

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  • kylebennett7127 said...

    Yeah, with Avery Robinson and furman getting good time in. Then hollowell, it seems depth is no concern. Losing talbott hurts a little because he would really set the depth over the charts.

    Also free safety should not be an issue. I think gordon has a break out year this year.

    Overall countess is the only perfect athlete for his position. So I can see being skeptical, but its just too much experience to be a C grade clint. Jt Floyd is really my only concern

    agreed, Gordon was really solid last year as a first time starter and showed flashes of brilliance. If he can take a step or two forward he will be a very good FS.

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  • Clint Brewster said...

    If Kovacs, Countess, or Floyd gets hurt it won't be good I will say that much.

    Well Countess got hurt and the secondary seems to be doing pretty good. Still feeling good about that C grade?

    Scooter305

  • Scooter305 said...

    Well Countess got hurt and the secondary seems to be doing pretty good. Still feeling good about that C grade?

    Yeah they could possibly be in the high C to low B area right now IMO. I think they are starting to gel and improve better than most thought. Lots of football left to play.

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  • Passing Defense (through games of Oct 13, 2012)

    1. Alabama 125.8 ypg
    2. LSU 130.3 ypg
    3. Michigan 134.8 ypg

    MrWoodson

  • Clint Brewster said...

    Yeah they could possibly be in the high C to low B area right now IMO. I think they are starting to gel and improve better than most thought. Lots of football left to play.

    Nice try to salvage a bad prediction.

    So, how many A secondaries are there in the FBS? Out of 100 plus teams, what do you have 20 or so top-level A secondaries? Even out of 60+ BCS schools, you have to have more than a handful As...unless your standards are just higher than anyone elses.

    You can't name 10 secondaries that are better than Michigan, let alone the 30 or so you would ha e to name to make it a C secondary in anyway.

    No worries though. Few expected it to look so good so far.

    Peterklima

  • Peterklima said...

    Nice try to salvage a bad prediction.

    So, how many A secondaries are there in the FBS? Out of 100 plus teams, what do you have 20 or so top-level A secondaries? Even out of 60+ BCS schools, you have to have more than a handful As...unless your standards are just higher than anyone elses.

    You can't name 10 secondaries that are better than Michigan, let alone the 30 or so you would ha e to name to make it a C secondary in anyway.

    No worries though. Few expected it to look so good so far.

    Imagine if we hadn't lost Countess! panic

    MrWoodson

  • Peterklima said...

    Nice try to salvage a bad prediction.

    So, how many A secondaries are there in the FBS? Out of 100 plus teams, what do you have 20 or so top-level A secondaries? Even out of 60+ BCS schools, you have to have more than a handful As...unless your standards are just higher than anyone elses.

    You can't name 10 secondaries that are better than Michigan, let alone the 30 or so you would ha e to name to make it a C secondary in anyway.

    No worries though. Few expected it to look so good so far.

    Haha... Michigan still has the bulk of their conference in-front of them. I just said they could be in the B range now in my last post? They can definitely make it up in the A range if the secondary continues to play like they have in the last three games. The secondary was definitely a C in the first three games but have improved a lot since. We'll see if they continue to do so as they get into the tough part of their conference schedule. It's not a six game season.

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    Clint Brewster

  • MrWoodson said...

    Passing Defense (through games of Oct 13, 2012)

    1. Alabama 125.8 ypg 2. LSU 130.3 ypg 3. Michigan 134.8 ypg

    This reminds me a lot of the year (2003? I think so) where we only allowed like one passing touchdown all year...and then USC put up 4 on us in the Rose Bowl and everyone was like "Wtf happened?????"

    That number is wildly skewed by...

    1. Us facing dominant running teams in Alabama and Air Force
    2. Purdue and especially Illinois being totally incompetent at throwing the ball. I didn't count how many times Illinois receivers dropped balls or were just missed by their quarterbacks, but the statistics definitely overstated how well our secondary performed.

    Not saying our secondary isn't good, but there's no way we're a top-3 unit, or even close to that.

    inuyesta

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