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Michigan defense: 2012 preview

  • Luger said...

    Floyd hasn't been consistent, Gordon was in and out of the FS position last yr, Countess shows promise but we still have to see it. Only given is Kovacs, but his strength is run support. Then who plays in the two deep that you trust? Are folks forgetting how against Ohio our secondary was torched on big plays, whether completed for TDs or not? In the sugar bowl, our back 5 couldn't get the D of the field as Vtech completed 3rd&long over n over again? Let's not be naive, until our secondary shows me something, I can't be that optimistic to say they are anywhere near a B.

    Floyd was consistent and pretty solid up until the OSU game, and the problem there seemed to be a coaching problem, as they were hit with a particular route by Posey that they weren't sure how to defend.

    And what do we still have to see out of Countess? He stepped in last year and played competently enough to start on most Big10 squads.

    And was in and out as he competed against a senior who most thought would be the best guy in the secondary. And I think most would say that he was the better of the two.

    And finally, Kovacs strength may be in run support, but he has shown enough football smarts that coverage is not a liability with him.

    bkp1883

  • Luger said...

    Yes!! I'm confused, Who would you use as a barometer if not the best team? Why measure yourself against an average team, or above average team and get inconclusive results. Thats like measuring yourself on a scale thats not calibrated, you won't get the real result. They are the barometer right now because they set the bar as being the best, and based on how well we do against them should tell us how far we got to go to also be considered the best.

    Do you not understand a grading scale? A = excellent C = Average F = Failure. If you compare results only against Elite you are bound to be below it. If we played Bama every game would we win even 1 or 2? That's not how it works. Again I am not saying they are elite or an A. They are better then average. Prove otherwise. It cannot be done logically.

    Scooter305

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    I see your points, but I disagree with downplaying the accomplishments of the DBs.

    Michigan had the 16th ranked pass defense in the nation last year, at 190.5 ypg. Michigan gave up only 12 TDS through the air, with 9 INTs. In conference play only, Michigan had the 5th ranked pass defense giving up 185.2 ypg, while giving up 8 TDs and having 4 INTs. The only loss from the back 7 was an injury prone Woolfolk, and a backup in Talbott. Numbers alone and what little they lost compared to last year, that doesn't sound like an average defensive backfield coming back.

    JT Floyd was tasked with lining up with the top WR game in and game out, these included NFLer Floyd, Cunningham, McNutt, Jenkins... He held his own, with 10 PBUs, one off of tying for the conference lead.

    As I stated, Floyd is a 5th year senior, and he now has the advantage that everyone of the DBs have for the first time in their career, having the same defense as the previous years. Mattison has talked about how last fall it was like talking a foreign language to the defense compared to guys knowing where to be and why this fall.

    your points are valid, don't get me wrong but your points are why I agree with Clint. Clint rated the secondary as a C which is average, all I'm saying is what I saw on the field last yr its hard for me to say we deserve a B coming into this yr until we see that. Your stats are impressive on paper, but again was our schedule murderer's row? Interesting you bring up Floyd, yes lined up against Floyd who then got 159 receiving yards. ND passed for 315 that game, they drove the field on us in the final 2 mins very easily and scored on like 4 plays. Again you like the others are speaking in terms of potential by mentioning Floyd as a 5th yr senior and having an advantage. We still have to see it on the field this yr, thats why I can't argue against a C grade.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Luger on 8/10/2012 at 9:31 AM

    Luger

  • Scooter305 said...

    Do you not understand a grading scale? A = excellent C = Average F = Failure. If you compare results only against Elite you are bound to be below it. If we played Bama every game would we win even 1 or 2? That's not how it works. Again I am not saying they are elite or an A. They are better then average. Prove otherwise. It cannot be done logically.

    I think you are not following your own logic. You are supposed to compare results against the elite, thats why you have a grading scale. I never said you said our secondary was elite. You said our secondary was better than average correct? My point was if we measured that "better than average" secondary against the two bad games we had last yr in ohio and vtech (who were arguably the most talented teams we faced), our secondary looked average. When we go against bama, if our secondary is average we will look average because if bama is great/elite, we will look average, how is that hard to understand? If we went against northen illinois I'm sure our secondary would look elite, thats why you measure yourself against the best so you can have a true idea of where you stand...get it?

    Luger

  • Maize N Blue said...

    We are C+ in the secondary? WOW!!! Hay Brewster are you KIDDING ME!

    Yup, just a little above average. Based off last season and players lost, that's how it looks on paper after an unbiased opinion. Concerns at FS and depth at cornerback- how is a C+ not fair?

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    Twitter: ClintBrew247 E-Mail: Clint.Brewster@yahoo.com

    Clint Brewster

  • Luger said...

    your points are valid, don't get me wrong but your points are why I agree with Clint. Clint rated the secondary as a C which is average, all I'm saying is what I saw on the field last yr its hard for me to say we deserve a B coming into this yr until we see that. Your stats are impressive on paper, but again was our schedule murderer's row? Interesting you bring up Floyd, yes lined up against Floyd who then got 159 receiving yards. ND passed for 315 that game, they drove the field on us in the final 2 mins very easily and scored on like 4 plays. Again you like the others are speaking in terms of potential by mentioning Floyd as a 5th yr senior and having an advantage. We still have to see it on the field this yr, thats why I can't argue against a C grade.

    I guess, what I saw on film was the 16th ranked defense for yards passing against and the 7th ranked defense for TDs given up. I didn't see an C or average defensive backfield last year.

    Thanks for pointing out Floyd, the second WR drafted this year. He was an A+ WR who couldn't find the endzone vs Floyd.

    Funny how Woolfolk and Talbott come into play, but those returning with more experience is a non-factor.

    xxmgobluexx

  • Maize N Blue said...

    We are C+ in the secondary? WOW!!! Hay Brewster are you KIDDING ME!

    If Kovacs, Countess, or Floyd gets hurt it won't be good I will say that much.

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    Twitter: ClintBrew247 E-Mail: Clint.Brewster@yahoo.com

    Clint Brewster

  • bkp1883 said...

    And what do we still have to see out of Countess? He stepped in last year and played competently enough to start on most Big10 squads.

    I guess you missed the interviews with Countess where he said last yr he had so many missed assignments in the latter part of the year which were most evident in the Ohio game? Countess made plays, but was the consistency there? I think Countess will be big time, but can you fault me for waiting until I actually seeing that bigtime consistency yr? Put it like this, I can close my eyes and know Kovacs will make the play in the run game, can you say the same today about Countess in the pass game? thats all I'm saying.

    Luger

  • Clint Brewster said...

    If Kovacs, Countess, or Floyd gets hurt it won't be good I will say that much.

    Take 3 starters away from any team and it wouldn't be good. I'm sorry but this is a laughable statement.

    Scooter305

  • Clint Brewster said...

    Yup, just a little above average. Based off last season and players lost, that's how it looks on paper after an unbiased opinion. Concerns at FS and depth at cornerback- how is a C+ not fair?

    You can count players lost, but not the gained experience for the players returing from last year?

    DBs that saw playing time last year for Michigan and return this year,
    CBs:Floyd, Countess, Avery, Hollowell, and Taylor. Other that could contribute this year, Richardson and Carter.
    FS: Gordon and Furman, others that could contribute this year, Wilson and Clark.
    SS: Kovacs and Robinson, other that may contribute this year, Gant.

    xxmgobluexx

  • Clint Brewster said...

    If Kovacs, Countess, or Floyd gets hurt it won't be good I will say that much.

    So you will throw in a player getting hurt as part of the equation, but not gained experience? Something isn't adding up here.

    Some have MSU as having the best DBs in the B1G next year, what happens to them if Adams, Dennard, and their returning safety get hurt? Would you rate their DBs on that hypothetical?

    xxmgobluexx

  • Scooter305 said...

    Take 3 starters away from any team and it wouldn't be good. I'm sorry but this is a laughable statement.

    I'm not saying all three I'm saying if any one of the 3 go down? are you serious?

    This post was edited by Clint Brewster on 8/10/2012 at 9:53 AM

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    Clint Brewster

  • Scooter305 said...

    Take 3 starters away from any team and it wouldn't be good. I'm sorry but this is a laughable statement.

    That was a laughable statement.

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    Clint Brewster

  • Luger said...

    I think you are not following your own logic. You are supposed to compare results against the elite, thats why you have a grading scale. I never said you said our secondary was elite. You said our secondary was better than average correct? My point was if we measured that "better than average" secondary against the two bad games we had last yr in ohio and vtech (who were arguably the most talented teams we faced), our secondary looked average. When we go against bama, if our secondary is average we will look average because if bama is great/elite, we will look average, how is that hard to understand? If we went against northen illinois I'm sure our secondary would look elite, thats why you measure yourself against the best so you can have a true idea of where you stand...get it?

    I guess we are just looking at this differently. I will use this analogy.

    You are basing your grade off of 1 test. A very hard test. Whatever you get on that test is your grade.

    I am basing the grade off a body of work. Many tests throughout the year. A pop quiz here or there. Homework assignments. Some of these are going to be easy and some are going to be hard. Either way you are graded on your body of work throughout the year.

    I can see where your coming from, but we play teams other than Bama. We may be a C compared to Bama. I am looking at the whole season, and like last year we will be above average. We lost 1 guy from a top 25 secondary statistically. There are 120 teams we are compared against. This secondary is above average compared to 120 teams. It is that simple.

    This secondary may be a C when compared only to Bama like you are trying to do.

    Scooter305

  • Clint Brewster said...

    I'm not saying all three I'm saying if any one own them go down? are you serious?

    If Kovacs goes down, Robinson steps in. It is a drop, but I would base rankings on the starter, not the potential injury.
    If Countess goes down, Avery or another CB steps in. It is a drop, but I would base rankings on the starter, not the potential injury.
    If Floyd goes down, Avery or another CB steps in. It is a drop, but I would base rankings on the starter, not the potential injury.

    xxmgobluexx

  • Clint Brewster said...

    That was a laughable statement.

    Oh sorry I must have read it wrong if you only meant one of those 3.

    This post was edited by Scooter305 on 8/10/2012 at 9:54 AM

    Scooter305

  • xxmgobluexx said...

    I guess, what I saw on film was the 16th ranked defense for yards passing against and the 7th ranked defense for TDs given up. I didn't see an C or average defensive backfield last year.

    Thanks for pointing out Floyd, the second WR drafted this year. He was an A+ WR who couldn't find the endzone vs Floyd.

    Funny how Woolfolk and Talbott come into play, but those returning with more experience is a non-factor.

    again, the stats you are saying are pretty on paper but they are inclusive of what occurred the entire yr over the likes of Minn, Nebraska, Purdue, and eastern mich, The film in our losses to MSU and Iowa will show you we were dominated by their running game so they didn't need to pass as often. Stat's are deceiving, the film against ND, Ohio and vtech showed deficiencies in our secondary, that’s all I'm saying. I'm not saying our secondary is atrocious, all I said was who am I to argue against Clint by saying its C+, because what I saw last yr its not that far off at all.

    This post was edited by Luger on 8/10/2012 at 9:56 AM

    Luger

  • Scooter305 said...

    Care to say why? Show me any team in the country that can lose its top 3 starters and be ok?

    I'm saying that if either one of those three go down it won't be good because of the depth behind them. Obviously if a team loses three starters it wouldn't be good haha.

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    Clint Brewster

  • Scooter305 said...

    Oh sorry I must have read it wrong if you only meant one of those 3.

    yeah thats what I thought.

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    Clint Brewster

  • Clint Brewster said...

    I'm saying that if either one of those three go down it won't be good because of the depth behind them. Obviously if a team loses three starters it wouldn't be good haha.

    Yeah reread it. My bad. Could see where I was coming from if you replace the "or" with "and" though haha.

    Scooter305

  • Luger said...

    again, the stats you are saying are pretty on paper but they are inclusive of what occurred the entire yr over the likes of Minn, Nebraska, Purdue, and eastern mich, The film in our losses to MSU and Iowa will show you we were dominated by their running game so they didn't need to pass as often. Stat's are deceiving, the film against ND, Ohio and vtech showed deficiencies in our secondary, that’s all I'm saying. I'm not saying our secondary is atrocious, all I said was who am I to argue against steve by saying its C+, because what I saw last yr its not that far off at all.

    That stats of the season take the best and worst matchup and after 13 games you have a pretty good indication of where a team stands. You can point out the bad games, but they are averaged out by the best games.

    I am not saying Michigan has the best DBs in the NCAA, but I think they are better than slightly above average, I saw that and looking at the numbers for the season as a whole, I think it shows that. shrug

    xxmgobluexx

  • Scooter305 said...

    Yeah reread it. My bad. Could see where I was coming from if you replace the "or" with "and" though haha.

    its all good man!

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    Twitter: ClintBrew247 E-Mail: Clint.Brewster@yahoo.com

    Clint Brewster

  • Clint,

    I guess the first question I need to ask is who or what you are comparing the secondary to to get your grade. We could be looking at it differently like Luger and I.

    Scooter305

  • Scooter305 said...

    Clint,

    I guess the first question I need to ask is who or what you are comparing the secondary to to get your grade. We could be looking at it differently like Luger and I.

    I guess I'm comparing them to every team in the BCS. I watched every game multiple times from last season, the spring game, read every college football preview magazine, also got opinions from an NFL scout and talked to several current or former college coaches. I did my homework before writing the offensive preview and the defensive preview.

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    Twitter: ClintBrew247 E-Mail: Clint.Brewster@yahoo.com

    Clint Brewster

  • Clint Brewster said...

    I guess I'm comparing them to every team in the BCS. I watched every game multiple times from last season, the spring game, read every college football preview magazine, also got opinions from an NFL scout and talked to several current or former college coaches. I did my homework before writing the offensive preview and the defensive preview.

    Let me ask you this:

    If you were going to do a defensive season review, what letter grades would you have given to the three units you graded?

    bkp1883