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I Don't Understand Al Borges

  • um_king said...

    There's a flaw to your thinking (2 actually).

    1. You are assuming ND is choosing to leave him wide open (unlikely).

    Even if you assume they do leave him wide open on purpose, it brings up flaw #2 in your thinking.

    2. The play call is designed to get people open, which it did. Pressure getting to the QB at all/faster than desired is indicative of a lack of execution up front, not a bad play call. Denard with a bad throw is also execution related, not a bad play call.

    For the 1st time all year, our pass pro wasn't very good, but of course everyone wants to blame Borges' play calling, which wasn't that bad. The strength of their defense (interior front 7 - Tuitt, Nix, Te'o) outperformed our weakness on offense (interior OL). We were still able to move the ball on them on the ground and air when we executed properly. We attacked their weaknesses (secondary, edges on defense) - that is indicative of good play calling. Was it perfect or even great? I wouldn't go that far, but it wasn't nearly as bad as people are suggesting. And the loss wasn't certainly all Borges fault (or Borges and Denard), but people want to overreact and blame everything on Borges and/or Denard and claim one needs to be fired and the other benched. It's idiotic.

    Also, just because the other team's gamble works, doesn't mean our team had a bad game plan. We execute better against their gamble and light up the scoreboard everyone is talking about how Borges is a genius - though the calls would differ none.

    I thought our pass pro was very good. 2 of those 3 sacks were the direct result of Denard running into a Notre Dame defender when he had all day to throw the last sack ND had in the game was a perfect example of this on 2nd and goal from the 6. Skip ahead in this video to 46:58 as you can see Denard has plenty of time to throw... instead of stepping up in the pocket and taking whats their or simply throwing the ball away he runs right into a Notre Dame defender.

    Play

    2012 Michigan at Notre Dame 2nd Half

    http://www.youtube.com/v/1dyus2RzYrU

    TheDudeAbides21

  • TheDudeAbides21 said...

    I thought our pass pro was very good. 2 of those 3 sacks were the direct result of Denard running into a Notre Dame defender when he had all day to throw the last sack ND had in the game was a perfect example of this on 2nd and goal from the 6. Skip ahead in this video to 46:58 as you can see Denard has plenty of time to throw... instead of stepping up in the pocket and taking whats their or simply throwing the ball away he runs right into a Notre Dame defender.

    Pass pro isn't just about not giving up sacks. We were getting pressured up the middle more than we had all year. Lewan got beat once, badly - though I'm not 100% sure if it was all on him or a communication error. Schofield did very good some plays, including a great pancake on Tuitt, then would get beat. I'm not saying the pass pro was awful, but it was the worse of the season thus far.

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    um_king

  • um_king said...

    There's a flaw to your thinking (2 actually).

    1. You are assuming ND is choosing to leave him wide open (unlikely).

    Even if you assume they do leave him wide open on purpose, it brings up flaw #2 in your thinking.

    2. The play call is designed to get people open, which it did. Pressure getting to the QB at all/faster than desired is indicative of a lack of execution up front, not a bad play call. Denard with a bad throw is also execution related, not a bad play call.

    For the 1st time all year, our pass pro wasn't very good, but of course everyone wants to blame Borges' play calling, which wasn't that bad. The strength of their defense (interior front 7 - Tuitt, Nix, Te'o) outperformed our weakness on offense (interior OL). We were still able to move the ball on them on the ground and air when we executed properly. We attacked their weaknesses (secondary, edges on defense) - that is indicative of good play calling. Was it perfect or even great? I wouldn't go that far, but it wasn't nearly as bad as people are suggesting. And the loss wasn't certainly all Borges fault (or Borges and Denard), but people want to overreact and blame everything on Borges and/or Denard and claim one needs to be fired and the other benched. It's idiotic.

    Also, just because the other team's gamble works, doesn't mean our team had a bad game plan. We execute better against their gamble and light up the scoreboard everyone is talking about how Borges is a genius - though the calls would differ none.

    Actually, #1 is very reasonable.

    Our WR core is not good. Notice that ND consistently double teamed Gardner and Funchess but no one else on our WR corps. That should tell you what ND thinks of our other receiving targets.

    My issue with #2 is that Borges used this same play throughout the 1st half and it led to 2 turnovers (if my memory serves me right). Part of coaching is adjusting. Borges should have recognized that the ND defense had been instructed to ignore play action AND that our pass protection was not working as intended on play action.

    I reiterate that Borges did not adjust *on the fly* like he should have. I do, however, give credit for changing our gameplan in the second half.

    Lastly, I get the distinction between play call and execution. I'm a coach and it's one of the things that I consistently remind my players.

    Good execution/instincts can overcome a bad play call.
    Bad execution/instincts can derail a good play call.

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    Frank C

  • um_king said...

    Pass pro isn't just about not giving up sacks. We were getting pressured up the middle more than we had all year. Lewan got beat once, badly - though I'm not 100% sure if it was all on him or a communication error. Schofield did very good some plays, including a great pancake on Tuitt, then would get beat. I'm not saying the pass pro was awful, but it was the worse of the season thus far.

    Lewan got beat one time as did Schofield and that was it. He made shembo a non factor and Schofield made Tuitt a non factor. I don't agree here at all, Denard made horrendous decisions gotta call it like it is. Offensive line played their best game of the season. I wish Toussiant would have gotten more carries.

    This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 9/23/2012 at 5:10 PM

    TheDudeAbides21

  • Frank C said...

    Actually, #1 is very reasonable.

    Our WR core is not good. Notice that ND consistently double teamed Gardner and Funchess but no one else on our WR corps. That should tell you what ND thinks of our other receiving targets.

    My issue with #2 is that Borges used this same play throughout the 1st half and it led to 2 turnovers (if my memory serves me right). Part of coaching is adjusting. Borges should have recognized that the ND defense had been instructed to ignore play action AND that our pass protection was not working as intended on play action.

    I reiterate that Borges did not adjust *on the fly* like he should have. I do, however, give credit for changing our gameplan in the second half.

    Lastly, I get the distinction between play call and execution. I'm a coach and it's one of the things that I consistently remind my players.

    Good execution/instincts can overcome a bad play call. Bad execution/instincts can derail a good play call.

    Our wideouts were getting open all game. Denard played horribly, the worst game of his career. Call it like it is, he was single handily responsible for 5 turnovers. I would never rag on Denard or single handily pick out a kid as to why a team loss, but we outgained Notre Dame overall 299 to 239(Their lowest output of the season offensively in rushing yards, points, and passing yards) in total yards going into the 4th quarter it was even more lopsided 260 to 140. Turnovers and missed opprtunities cost us this game we were moving the ball up and down the field the gameplan was not the issue execution was, Notre Dame like any good team should/would do captialized on our mistakes.

    This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 9/23/2012 at 5:15 PM

    TheDudeAbides21

  • Quite frankly, it leads back to what has really hurt this offense since Hoke and Borges arrived in games against above average defenses. The *heart* of their offensive philosophy is a functioning running back game and I say that deliberately because you need running as well as getting the backs involved in the running game with *safe* passes. We just don't have that reliably in games vs. good opposition, but that game is what makes play action so lethal. Borges seems to want play action without the conditions in place that make play action a dangerous weapon.

    And obviously a lot of that is down to the failure in establishing a running game that does not involve Denard, some of that is also down on Denard, because quite frankly there's no such thing as an easy, safe, high percentage pass for Denard. He's a poor passer and to put this in perspective, guys like Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young who fell apart in the NFL were decent passers at the college level, Denard is a much worse passer than them. Even when Denard hits a guy his footwork, his technique is all off. You still see a guy who improvises throwing and who coaches have probably given up on as far as good pro quarterback technique is concerned. That's not Denard's fault per se, he is what he is, but Borges seems unable to accept Denard as what he is. Maybe he is quite simply too mediocre to properly develop a plan to plays to Denard's strengths.

    UMSkeletor

  • TheDudeAbides21 said...

    Our wideouts were getting open all game. Denard played horribly, the worst game of his career. Call it like it is, he was single handily responsible for 5 turnovers. I would never rag on Denard or single handily pick out a kid as to why a team loss, but we outgained Notre Dame overall 299 to 239(Their lowest output of the season offensively in rushing yards, points, and passing yards) in total yards going into the 4th quarter it was even more lopsided 260 to 140. Turnovers and missed opprtunities cost us this game we were moving the ball up and down the field the gameplan was not the issue execution was, Notre Dame like any good team should/would do captialized on our mistakes.

    I'll need to see evidence of "our wideouts were betting open all game." That's not how i saw it.

    But I agree that Denard single-handedly cost us this game. There is no doubt about that in my mind. And he feels the same way.

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    Frank C

  • TheDudeAbides21 said...

    Call it like it is, he was single handily responsible for 5 turnovers.

    The first interception to Te'o was inexplicable. I assume its entirely on Denard, but I've watched it a bunch of times and can't figure out what was supposed to be happening there.

    The second interception was at least partially on Gardner as he held up on the slant and Denard lead him too far.

    The third interception is the one I referenced in the OP.

    The fourth interception was a hail mary at the end of the half.

    The fumble was soul crushing and on Denard.

    So the first interception was the same "WTF Denard" throw that we have seen in every game this season. The second was similar to other coordination issues between Denard and Devin we have seen in every game this season. The fumble is something we, and every team in the nation with a scrambling QB should be used to and expect.

    The point to all of this is that while Denard made some horrible plays, but what we saw was what we really should expect out of this team, especially with Al Borges still insisting on calling plays that make it extremely difficult on Denard.

    What I didn't expect was the absolutely horrible playcalling Al Borges submarined all three first quarter drives with, and Brady Hoke's very poor clock management at the end of the game.

    bkp1883

  • Bkp, I actually think that Borges did a nice job calling the second half.

    The long drive that ended in Denard's fumble showed a good halftime adjustment by Hoke/Borges. However, I hold Borges responsible for the drive that ended in Vincent Smith's interception. On that drive, Denard was 5/6 with over 50+ yards passing. The trick play killed our momentum.

    I also hold Borges responsible for the first redzone opportunity that ended in no points following Golson's first interception. We should have tested ND's young secondary with jump balls from the first snap. Instead, Borges called a run play where Toussaint lost 2 yards that allowed ND's defense to be even more aggressive and get back-to-back sacks and force Michigan out of good field goal range.

    Michigan should've led 10-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.

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    Frank C

  • I watched the game again and all our offensive drives....game should have ended 31-13 UM. That is of course if you take away 1 fumble by Denard, 1 int by Vincent Smith, and 1 int when Denard over threw Devin Gardner

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    "Those Who Stay...Will be Champions"

    Moon ●

  • Bottom line is Denard needs to learn how to take a sack or throw it away and not to the other team. Until that happens, it's hard to blame the coaches. The coaches aren't on the field, the players are.

    MichaelHardenII

  • Cg87 said...

    Can you say overrated?? I can, overrated

    Still 10x better than Ole Piss

    This post was edited by SimplyComplex on 9/23/2012 at 8:56 PM

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    SimplyComplex

  • Cg87 said...

    Can you say overrated?? I can, overrated

    Has anybody ever thought ole miss was overrated? Probably not cause your always on the bottom looking up. How's the view from college football down their?

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    victorsclub ●

  • Didn't Ole Miss lose 66-31 to #14 Texas last week?

    That's a difference of 35 points or 5 TDs. And Texas isn't even the best team in the nation.

    I wonder if we'll hear from you after Ole Miss plays @ #1 Alabama next week.

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    Frank C

  • Cg87 said...

    The bottom?? Ole miss 3-1, Michigan 2-2. Your QB can't even complete a pass without being picked off

    This is your only warning. Stop trolling or you're gone.

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    Ducksworth ●

  • Cg87 said...

    The bottom?? Ole miss 3-1, Michigan 2-2. Your QB can't even complete a pass without being picked off

    Michigan also played a much harder ooc schedule. Come back by after the season, I'm sure Michigan will have a better record. Nice troll attempt. roflmao...ole miss

    MichaelHardenII

  • bkp1883 said...

    I had to post this.

    Look at the attached picture. This a picture I took of Denard's third interception. This is the moment Denard has finished his PA motion to Fitz. Notice the defenders: #7 Tuitt, #9 Nix, and #5 Te'o have absolutely no reaction to the PA, with the former two attacking Denard, and Te'o dropping back into the targeted zone.

    Here is what Borges expects Robinson to do:

    1. Plant and step into the 326lb DT charging him, 2. Make a read with two defenders in his face and an into an uneffected coverage, 3. Complete a pass from a 5'11 QB to a 5'8 receiver OVER A 6'6 defensive end, 4. All in a fraction of a second.

    Put Bellomy in and the result is only better in the sense that you have a pile of goo in the backfield at the end of the play rather than a turnover.

    I'm incensed.

    And now Denard fumbles. Wow.

    Are you serious?

    That picture shows that the play call was solid. Calabrese #44 bit on the fake and was out of position leaving the WR wide open. In fact he's almost falling down in the photo trying to get back into coverage.

    Honestly, some of you complaining about Borges don't have a clue.

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    Clarkw267

  • The halfback pass was the single worst playcall i've ever seen.

    thevictor_11

  • Clarkw267 said...

    Are you serious?

    That picture shows that the play call was solid. Calabrese #44 bit on the fake and was out of position leaving the WR wide open. In fact he's almost falling down in the photo trying to get back into coverage.

    Honestly, some of you complaining about Borges don't have a clue.

    Al has a thoroughbred that can win a lot of races, but instead, he's using him for pony rides at kiddie birthday parties.

    signature image signature image signature image

    MSU isn't a very good football program.. takes year of consistent winning to get to that level. - copemoney 1/22/13

    Due51 ●

  • Cg87 said...

    We scored 31 points on the #14 team and y'all scored 3 on the #10 team so I think that makes us a little bit better!! Hahaha yall should have a better record than us since y'all play in the worst conference in the nation!!! The MAC is a better conference than y'all

    You got beat down at home by a 5 loss Texas team from a year ago. Why are you talking trash?

    This post was edited by TheDudeAbides21 on 9/24/2012 at 9:43 AM

    TheDudeAbides21

  • Cg87 said...

    Can you say overrated?? I can, overrated

    What have this world come to an Ole Piss fan trolling. Congrats on getting your last win of the season. You guys destroyed Tulane! And UTEP and Central Arkansas?

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    Nick_Wolverines

  • Cg87 said...

    We scored 31 points on the #14 team and y'all scored 3 on the #10 team so I think that makes us a little bit better!! Hahaha yall should have a better record than us since y'all play in the worst conference in the nation!!! The MAC is a better conference than y'all

    This is easily the dumbest comment I've ever read. Your logic is unsurprisingly dull. At least Michigan has a chance at winning a conference whereas Ole Miss will always be a bottom feeder in the SEC. Better be careful or Kentucky's going to catch you.

    hailbigblue

  • Cg87 said...

    Our last win of the season?? We still have to play Arkansas 1-3, auburn 1-3 and vandy 1-3.... Don't think that was our last win! I take back what I said about Robinson, it's actually a tie for the most overrated player with Robinson and Montee ball hahahaha

    We would beat all of those teams you mentioned. You will lose to the first two by 3 touchdowns, and Vandy by at least one touchdown.

    Ole Miss is terrible!

    Can't even cheat well.

    Stick to the beauty pageants.

    Amazinglyblue78

  • Cg87 said...

    Win your conference are you kidding me?? Kentucky could win the big 10, your conference is that pathetic!! Your QB is the most overrated player in the country who showed that Saturday night!! East Mississippi community college could beat you guys. Hahahaha the Big 10

    Has Ole Miss ever won the SEC? Look, I know this is probably the only free time you get away from your father beating you and your mother wishing she aborted you but trolling people isn't going to change the fact that everyone that knows you hates you. Denard is a house hold name that had a bad game whereas no one would know if anyone from Ole Miss had a bad game because A) no one cares and B) no one outside of Mississippi can name a single player on your nobody team. Go back to cheering for Bama or any other SEC team that matters unlike the Ole Miss Running Rejects or whatever your nickname is. Please keep posting your insecurity and prove me right that you're an abused, neglected degenerate who is a victim of over inbreeding and missing the gene pool all together and diving head first into the gene sewer.

    hailbigblue

  • Clarkw267 said...

    Are you serious?

    That picture shows that the play call was solid. Calabrese #44 bit on the fake and was out of position leaving the WR wide open. In fact he's almost falling down in the photo trying to get back into coverage.

    Honestly, some of you complaining about Borges don't have a clue.

    You didn't even read my post apparently.

    No play that expects Denard Robinson to load up and deliver an accurate pass while being rushed by two unblocked d-linemen is a solid play call. And Calabrese is falling down because Kerridge knocked him on his butt during the play action. Te'o has zone coverage on Gallon there, he's just tailing Funchess out of his zone at the moment. By the time Denard has loaded up to pass, Spawn has picked up Funchess, and Te'o is heading back to the middle where he catches the interception. The best thing Denard could have done is loft it out of bounds. That's not solid playcalling.

    Read Brian Cook's recap today, he makes the exact same clueless argument I did during the game.

    bkp1883

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