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Yesterday was a blowout. The game was close, but the manner in which we all handled it was a blowout. Let me say this, we all have a right to be pissed. Tbe play calling was brutal and downright comical. But for some to say that we arent on track, they are overreacting. The coaches have been over producing for two years. Name anotber coach that would have done what we did last year? Look at our schedule....i knew we would be somewhere between 7 and ten wins, and 8 is where i predicted us. Hoke has procured talent and now he is developing it. We lost to the top tbree teams in the country, all on the road fergodsakes. Lets all take it easy. Borgess is calling a different offense and he made some mistakes. In fact he has been confusing brilliant at times this year. Lets have some faith in next year. We have some talent coming up and a favorable schedule.
Now lets crack someones head in the capital one bowl!
This post was edited by kylebennett7127 17 months ago
Not really sure about the overreaction either. Yeah, sucks we lost, especially this quite winnable game. But we need to get a grip.
I also think Borges was largely responsible for this loss, but am not calling for him to be fired...though he has to seriously rethink his entire gameplanning.
With the borgess thing, yeah. I mean, on a fundamental level, what exactly are you trying to do? He has gotta improve, but i think it shows that this is not his forte.
Developing? I agree anytime we lose most of us including me overreact a bit. However, I don't see this development with many of our positions.
OL- not as good now as in the beginning of the year
DL- meh no real development here teams still run it down our throat
Secondary- still getting beat deep, and not covering the middle of the field well
Linbackers- still can't stop the option WTF after seeing it several times this year. Where is the development?
Running backs- just look at the stats I would say regressed
I agree we are getting talented kids that play hard, but the coaches especially the offensive side of the ball are not developing these guys well IMO.
This is where i say the coaches are over producing.
Countess goes down and we have floyd, gordon, kovacs and taylor.
Kovacs cannot cover, floyd has been existant for years with no ability and gordon who is undersized. Kinda rag tag to be honest that plays way beyond their talent. Number 1 in nation, are you kidding. I realize teams kust run on us but atill number one js number one.
Dline- washington is an olineman and the fact that they got campbell to play is amazing. Roh has done much since he was a frosh and young guys at wde who have all produced. All have developed significantly just to be servicable.
Oline has underperformed but i have a whole post on this.
Receivers- roundtree, dileo and gallon. Roy is producing quite well, then you have gallon and dileo who no one else wanted. Yet these guys produce and guess what? They too have gotten better.
Running backs- fitz and co have zero time to do anything. The line has held them back. And seriously , there is no point here for you since we have had the same backs coach in good and bad years.
If we had all top talent regressing then fine. But since we dont you really have no point. All these players for the most part have played above tbeir heads. Ive seen dramatic improvement since these coaches took over. If tou havent i would suggest switching ro ankther sport like cricket
Linebacker- demens who has developed and young guys who have developed as well.
You make a good point, hard to disagree. I just want someone, aka hoke to make sure Borges knows this is unexceptable and make him accountable. I love the loyalty that Hoke has to his coaches by letting them basically call the game, but some of these terrible calls have to be questioned. I think saying Borges should get a pass because these kids don't fit his system is a excuse he doesn't deserve. He's making a lot of money and a good coordinator can make adjustments to have success. I think he has done some really good things but then you get the 3 and 3 with Vincent up the middle and I'm loosing hair. If I recall right, he did well at Auburn with Campell and he didn't fit his system. I never gave RR a pass because he didn't have his players, I won't give it to Hoke and company either. The coaching staff has down a good job in there two years but they expect more and so do I. Like others have said, OSU is tough and only becoming tougher on the field and in recruiting, we need to be the team people think of when they think big ten not OSU, and right now that's not the case.
I agree a hundred percent that hoke needs to hold borgess accountable. And i am not giving anyone a pass by any means. In fact hoke is the one who meeds to pick up a headset and jump in. But, Im combatting the unreasonable request that everyone should be fired and the team is regressing. Anyone who thinks the team has gotten worse have no business commenting on football in general.
Why can't we stop the option? I watch high school kids better versed in pursuing down the line. If I was coaching against Michigan I would run that play every single series until they stopped it. How long do you think that would take?
Years of service is not an excuse that should keep a coach out of the doghouse, or off the firing block. Production for the position is what matter along with continued development.
Our OL has been anemic, they look big and slow.
If this stuff isn't fixed we will continue to be mediocre.
Yeah I was extremely disappointed in the reaction by Michigan fans... Borges has made questionable calls all year imo, and I was 50-50 on him before the game. But to run a guy out of town while he's trying to work w/ the talent that was left to him in a completely different scheme is overreaction. Borges has a solid track record w/ a pro style offense based on running the ball and play action passes. When you have a "spread o-line" that can't get any push at all, and can't protect up the middle then that is shot to pieces.
I get the frustration with the option. But we dont have shaziers and robys on the edge. We have morgans....playing above their head. We are one of tbe top defenses in the country! We bend but dont break! Sometimes we get agressive sometimes we dont.
We have a new center....bryant(our big run blocker) was hurt. Schofield is a guard actually. Lewan has neen awsome and omameh is omameh.
We also had zero blocking tight ends on the team....not really hokes fault either.
Pass protection has been good but you cant play power football with this line.
If the line play isnt better next fall then you have a valid point with funk. And thats the only position
Several points from someone that's toeing the ledge right now:
1) People keep bringing up the quality of the teams we lost to, but I want to bring up the quality of the teams we beat. The teams Michigan beat went a combined 41-56. Michigan feasted on teams like Massachusettes, Illinois, Purdue, Iowa, Minnesota. They beat Air Force, Northwestern, and a suprisingly incompetent MSU by an average of 5 points at home.
2) The offense that failed so miserably in the second half of the Ohio game is likely very similar to what Borges wants to run. The theme of the offense for most of the season was that Denard couldn't run the sort of offense that Borges was comfortable with. Well Borges took Denard out of the gameplan almost completely in the second half, and the results were disastrous.
3) Much of the problem with the running game is talent-independent. Michigan's offensive linemen have been clearly confused about their blocking assignments all season long, and it even seems to have gotten worse as the season has gone on. Kyle Kalis looks like a special talent. Will he be better and more aware than 4-year starter Omameh?
4) If Michigan has been suffering from a lack of playmakers on offense, that appears to be a problem that may continue. Michigan's recruiting at skill positions has been solid but not spectacular.
5) Context is relevant here, as well. A lot of us that may be overreacting were already counting Hoke's national championships. From my point of view, this defense is destined for great things, but I am not seeing much progress or development out of the offense at all. The components that are supposed to be the trademarks of Borges offense have especially falters. At this point, I don't know if Michigan reaches elite status because the offense seems to be spinning its wheels.
2) Borges took Devin out of the game too with the constant flip-flopping. I really thought they'd be on the field more together, and that was extremely disappointing.
3) Omameh is terrible, and I honestly can't remember the last time he cleared a hole when pulling. I'd be willing to bet Kalis will be much better next year.
4) Agreed. But the talent on the o-line will be similar to what Stanford is working with in regards to lack of playmakers out wide. I'll take that all day.
5) Mattison is 100% the man. Before yesterday's game I was 50-50 on Borges, now i'm more like 35% behind Borges. Next year will be his chance to change peoples opinions.
True on the not bringing in playmakers part. They are bringing on big possession type tjat move the chains. An offense that controls tempo and clock. Will we be able too? Idk we will see, but im not condemning them for it now? Im upset that they tried to be what they wornt. Im upset about going away from what worked. But om nlt condemning the future ofdense yet. I wanted to see more from the oline as well though.
Also, lets not forget where we were two years ago. And i really dont want anyone saying we had a freat offense before. Because what did that offense do? Feasted on terrible teams and it could never get a first down agaimst good teams...
Nobody wants everyone fired, there's one specific guy who people want out. And it's hardly a reaction to just one game either. If Borges hadn't been brought in as part of the deal with Hoke and you set out to hire a new OC, nobody would have looked at Borges as even a candidate.
Michigan is an incredible tough spot right now. Understandable, you do not want to panic at this juncture. However, you are in the thick of recruiting for 2013 - with two outstanding offensive athletes still be being courted. Michigan MUST demonstrate that the offense is going to migrate to a SUCCESSFUL Pro set next year, and leverage the talents of DG and LT properly. There was nothing in the game yesterday that demonstrated any confidence to me at this point. The offense looked bad all year, and the team did not adjust fast enough.
OSU is about to kick it into high gear. ND is already in high gear. Michigan must keep pace, or we will be left in the dust. This is a juncture that we cannot fail at. And for those who claim the coaches still do not have 'their players', Meyer did not have his players and went 12-0.
Michigan beat some cupcakes and bad teams in an underachieving B10. This is nothing to celebrate iMO. I am not the coach, but would really evaluate where this offense is headed for the bowl game, and into next year.
“Those who stay will be champions”
― Bo Schembechler
First off, i would like to say michigan has not been in the running for LT since "the opening".
Second, meyer won with 10 straight years of top fice recruiting classes. Lets not act like we had anywhere near the talent. We didnt even have a team with enough players at certain positions. Like tight end, offensive line and defensive line. i would say our ream is the complete opposite of osu. Yet our coaches have outrecruited them in their own state. I would say we are fine.
Borgess has made his own bed with stupid calls. I just would rather let him see what he can do next year running his own system.
Who would tou want to come in at this point to run next years offense? Im not sure who the options are. Do you?(in all seriousness)
Lets not forget hoke was forced into taking ten o lineman in 2years because of the plethora of talent and numbers that are there. Rich rod wasnt preparing us for a power running team in 2013.
I obviously haven't looked into alternatives deeply because (a) I'm not making such decisions for a football program and (b) we all know Borges will stay at least another year anyway. We're just warming his seat here.
Where did you get "the opening" from? And ... we are not fine. Meyer went 12-0 with someone else's players, and has lit the recruiting trail up. You need playmakers on offense, and we have yet to close the deal on our two top targets - one of which everyone around here was saying was a done deal for months. We can see how this one will turn out.
I am not drinking koolaide but looking at the facts. Much like in business, football changes season to season, and you must constantly adjust. This is not the 1960s where a "system" works for 20 years in a single conference. The fluidity of coaches, schools, and players today requires constant adjustments. We need to make some quickly, or will see ND and OSU move farther out from us than they already are now.
I'm still not that worried about playmakers on offense, or at least not yet. I'd be shocked if Darboh, Chesson, or one of the guys from the 2013 class doesn't turn out to be an all B1G type WR. And we already know that Funchess is the real deal at TE. I would like an elite RB like Derrick Green, but if the line plays to its potential then we should be able to run anyone and have them do a decent job.
Agreed. But Meyer made it work at OSU. Also, our coaches have yet to close the deal on an elite offensive playmaker.
The coaches have done a very good job with what they've had to work with.
There were bad play calls yesterday, but there's not much you can do when the OL can't block up front. They got no push in the run game, and Devin when dropping back had to constantly move and reset, and was knocked around.
The talent level just isn't there yet. We don't have the depth built up to replace the key losses... Hoke is working on that and had been doing a good job of stockpiling talent.
We lost the leader of our OL (Molk), the leaders of our DL (Martin and Van Bergen), our best WR (Hemingway), our only TE (Koger).... That's quite a hit.
We weren't going to be as good as last year... most objective fans knew this. We lost 4 games all to good teams. Yes it's disappointing considering we had a chance to win 3 of those games. The reality is that in all 4 of those games.... we had less talent than the team we were playing.
All of the doom and gloom is just stupid. We'll be fine, and we have the right guy in charge.
Disagree. Michigan needs a DG much more than many here realize IMO. Also, an OC that does not include Funchess as a playmaker in 'the game' should be concerning to all IMO.
This post was edited by UMRSB 17 months ago
I placed us at 8-4 to start the season, and we lost to the leams I thought we would lose. However, it was the manner of the losses that troubles me, and the lack-of some key adjustments as the season progressed. I agree the talent is not there yet. However, we have yet to close the deal with some elite offensive playmakers. This is something that concerns me.
Tjey were takimg the middle away which.was allowung the receiver to catch and run to the outside. Which is even more alarming that we went away from it.
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