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I'm gonna take some grief for this, but:
1. I don't think the tattoos and cars were all that important to their success in the 2000s. Michigan was doing it the right way, and up until Carr went slack and Ron English found out what a spread offense was, Michigan hung with them for the most part.
2. OSU's real crimes came afterwards when Tressel lied, and then their administration completely thumbed their noses at the NCAA with their fake investigation. It actually borders upon disgusting to me that guys like Devier Posey, who perhaps have lucrative NFL careers ahead of them, had to sit out for half of their senior year over a few hundred dollars in free tattoos. The NCAA is a corrupt institution devoted to lining the pockets of rich old men with the blood and sweat of young men who are barred from other avenues to use their talents. Its a great and immoral hypocrisy that they treat players like they do. (Of course, the OSU admin had no such noble intentions, and are just as happy scraping every last profit they can out fo their servants)
So while OSU's administration should be unloading plenty of cash for their behavior, I think the players got a pretty raw deal. And to take it a step farther, if I found myself in Tressel's shoes, I would feel somewhat obligated to protect my players from terrible rules like that.
Seems rather selfish to deprive these college kids of compensation for the millions in revenue they generate because you value competitive parity. Nobody is forgetting about the advantages, its just not enough for me to think that the exploitation of players is somehow acceptable.
The amount that they save by being on scholarship is HUGE, they are definitely compensated when you think of it that way.
Go Blue & Gig Em'!
I don't really disagree, they are compensated well to a certain degree, but that doesn't mean that players aren't by and large forced into an exploitative relationship with school administrations, the BCS, and the NCAA. And the end result is still a system that compensates a good number of players well below their value and contributions and then actively hunts and punishes them for pursuing other sources of income.
When you dig down into the oversigning issue, the arbitrary age limits the NFL and NBA puts on players, and the legal battles the NCAA has waged against so-called "student-athletes", there is really no denying that the players are, to some degree, an exploited workforce.
If you haven't read Taylor Branch's piece on this topic, you must:
Had you guys paid every player used against us during the Cooper era, it still would not have eased the pain of any of those horrible losses you hung on us. And butte, you are typically a good poster, but you are fos if you expect me to believe that because "we cheated" it makes the past decade any less painful to you. As for your "beyond reproach" standards, the Fab Five was way worse than Tresselgate and never once in my life did I cry "Michigan cheated" even after you knocked us out of the Elite 8 that year. I realize the dynamics of the rivalry will never allow us to agree but the Holier than thou card is weak.
I simply can't agree with this enough.
The issue seems to be there are student athletes who either don't see the value in the free education, or just don't care about it. I don't see any reason why we need to change things around to accommodate those individuals.
And, as it's been pointed out many times in these type of arguments, the income that players like Denard generates for the University allows the University to do things like moving a club Lacrosse team to Varsity. To give out scholarships for women's track. Fund crew scholarships and purchase new boats.
I don't necessarily disagree with a "Cost of Living" scholarship, but I do take issue with those that believe the students deserve a "cut" of the income.
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Your boss would like you to know he's gonna start paying you in cheerios and diesel fuel. Don't like it? Tough.
EDIT: Really I can't cope with an a viewpoint that doesn't see the need to change to accommodate the needs and desires of the players.
This post was edited by bkp1883 2 years ago
Then I won't work for that boss, simple as that.
No one is forcing these kids to attend college, if they don't like the NCAA, they don't have to attend college.
Go Blue and Go Titans!
Exactly. If they don't like it then they don't have to get a free education while having the opportunity to dramatically improve their net worth through athletics.
Let's not pretend as if college athletes are victims in all of this. They get free exposure to their dream job employer(the NFL) and get a college education out of it. All it takes is opening my student loan bills to see just how good they have it.
This post was edited by jimtaco 2 years ago
It's not a nonsense issue.
These kids are being given free educations that costs a whole lot of money, that will also allow them to get a lot more money when they get a degree and get a great job that they wouldn't have gotten without that education that they got for free.
Never mind the free publicity they are getting for just playing a game, the free top-notch medical facilities if they get hurt (which costs a whole lot of money as well), the free training facilities and top of the world trainers at their beck and call, and many other perks.
Yea, it must suck be a college athlete.
Then where sir do you think the NFL would get their players? Are they going to start converting hockey players, or import rugby players from other parts of the world? All scholastic athletes perform under the same stipulation, football is just more popular which allows for a much greater immediate financial opportunity. Choices! Why does everyone in this country forget we all have choices if your feeling exploited go play water polo.
Have you watched any NBA lately? Their brand and quality of basketball is terrible IMO, and the collegiate basketball brand has suffered as well. This is all due to immature, uneducated, unexploited kids who's work ethic and discipline comes second to the money or the lifestyle.
How about, do you live in this country and take part in our lovely economy? Education is clearly lacking in the majority of our country. Paying athletes is not going to help them with their education, nor set a president that speaks to how important an education is. Thus our lovely country and its economy will be fueled by uneducated, unexploited wanna be athletes.
Yes it does.
If a athlete only got a scholarship from a school like Middle Tennessee or Troy, is that still not a free education?
Are they not still not getting a degree from a school for free?
And putting it in terms of revenue, most of those crappier academic schools are not good football programs as well, and those schools don't put out a lot of revenue, do they?
If I don't like it... I don't work there anymore. Your example sucked.
He guess what. Every employer in your industry has come to an agreement to only pay in cheerios and deisel fuel.
Then I guess it would be time to find a new industry.
This idea that athletes are FORCED into football, or college, is asinine and simply untrue.
Do realize how horrible your metaphor is?
But, to play along. I'll take the free education, room and board, and meal vouchers that job gives me and make the absolute best of the situation and get myself a degree in an industry that doesn't pay their employees with cheerios and diesel fuel.
And I would be ecstatic about the situation too.
This post was edited by buttesnake 2 years ago
Say I needed to get experience in a field I wanted to work in but could only find intern positions where I would not get paid, I would do it.
Now say I was interning and my work gave me some promotional items and a laptop and some other things.
What would happen if I sold those things while I was still interning?
They are technically intellectual property of that company.
If I quit or get fired, the company could let me keep the items then they would become mine but if I sold them already and the company wanted them back, I would be in huge trouble.
I highly doubt the University would want them back but since the athletes are still in school, I do not believe they should be able to sell those items they obtained by representing the University.
This post was edited by MichRedWingFan7 2 years ago
Its not that they are forced to play football. It is that, if they want to play football, they must step into a highly exploitative situation. I don't define fairness as "Not completely screwed over".
They can play semi-pro football if they don't want to attend college.
Simple as that.
They CHOOSE to attend college, and they are definitely being compensated a very good bit for doing so.
I guess the fab five years must have slipped your minds.
I don't understand your first two questions at all. Under my model, colleges would continue to have football programs that would be the feeders to the NFL, just the 99% of players not good/lucky enough to make it to the NFL would be compensated fairly.
If you think the quality of the NBA is terrible right now, then just LOL. The league is better than it has been since Jordan's second retirement. I would actually argue that it's even better than it was when Jordan was around, because there's actual suspense about who the champion will be each year.
I wonder if your argument about "our lovely country and its economy will be fueled by uneducated, unexploited wanna be athletes" could possibly be worse. Wtf are you even talking about? FBS football players make up like 0.000000000000000000001% of the population.
The "Free educations" really don't cost "a whole lot of money" at all. The marginal expense of adding 85 football players to the student body of a university with 10-50k undergrads is absolutely miniscule, if it even exists at all.
Also, I'll reiterate that free tuition is the absolute bare minimum compensation that players could possibly receive. Without that, there would be no big-time college football, period.
I'll remind you that all that "free publicity" (lol) kids are getting is absolutely worthless because they are barred from profiting from it in the form of endorsements/etc.
And college football players are no more "just playing a game" than NFL players. They are employees in a multi-billion dollar industry, an industry controlled by a cartel which openly colludes to force down the price of labor. Again, this would be illegal in any other context.
I'm not saying it "sucks" to be a college football player. I'm saying that college football players are exploited and wayyy under-compensated.
Kids play sports when they are young, if we start paying them in college. What do you think the priority will be for the child school, or sports? The NBA is terrible that is not the way basketball is suppose to be played. If NBA basketball is so great now why are we losing internationally to teams we were beating by fifty, sixty, seventy points ten fifteen years ago. Players are not suppose to be paid now and look at the rampant disregard for the institution. Football is just one sport, their are others if you were not aware and the players playing these sports are athletes and when they go to college they are college athletes. All of these athletes would need to be treated equally like the proposition that equalizes scholarships according to gender. Bottom line they are given an incredible opportunity to get an expensive education that will out value and teach them much more about life then the few thousand dollars during their college careers.
This post was edited by Amazinglyblue78 2 years ago
1) You are forgetting the many other scholarship sports that Michigan has also to provide for, that would be around 300 or so athletes on scholarships, so yes, that is costing the schools money. You are delusional if you think paying all those scholarships does not have any effect on the budget, why do you think so many schools lack the funds to even support and sustain a football program?
2) Not sure of the point of this?
3) They profit from it majorly, both during and after their careers. During their careers, they are getting their name out to the world and millions of people know their names, you don't think that is a benefit at all? After their careers are done (and degree in hand), you don't think companies are going to lavish over them? Why do you think so many go into sales positions?
4) Regardless of how much money is involved, it's still a game.
5) They may or may not be exploited, but they are definitely not being under-compensated. I would kill for a chance to attend a school like Michigan for free and all I have to do is play a game that I love.
Nice shifting goal posts. Your original argument was that players are compensated by getting "a free education from one of the top schools in the country"
Also, "most of those crappier academic schools are not good football programs as well"...really? Ohio State is something other than a crappy academic school? LSU? Alabama? Ad infinitum. And as if the education weren't poor enough for the general student bodies of those schools, the "football factory"-type schools typically couldn't give a less what their kids are doing in the classroom...they'll stretch their admissions criteria as far as the NCAA will let them to get kids who should be ineligible into school, and then once the kids are there they steer them into bull classes in bull majors so they have maximum time available for the field/training room. Look at Morris Claiborne's Wonderlic score. Look at all the former NFL stars like Warren Sapp who go broke after a few years of retirement because have never been taught anything about money management. Yeah...sweet "education" these guys are getting.
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