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IMO, and this is not limited to Matuska, Urbie seems to be working with the assumption that can go after his very highest prospects first and then circle back on the rest if he misses on his top choices. That worked in 2012 because guys like Dodson and Pittman were "parked" at lower tier schools and PSU had a collapse of epic proportions. I don't think that will work as well in 2013, evidenced by him being caught a bit flat-footed by UM's pick up of 9 commits in the last week including 4 elite OL. I don't think Urbie is going to be very successful flipping guys from Michigan after he has once passed on those kids to pursue higher rated prospects. Kids don't like being dissed like that and UM is a very different animal than MSU or Wisky.
This post was edited by MrWoodson 2 years ago
Heuerman has serious interest in ND. I know you have the "brother" card, but we were his first offer and we'll get the last visit between the two schools. March 31 is when he's visiting I do believe. Plans on deciding in early May. Breneman seems like PSU's to lose, but we are probably second at this time. He's been to campus twice and is scheduled for another visit in late March. I did see he'll be at tOSU Monday. What are you hearing on WR Foster? He just scheduled visit for our JR Day in late March as well.
Michigan has serious depth issues at OL. They graduate 4 OL after the 2012 season and another 2 after the 2013 season. That's basically all they have outside of these two recruiting classes. They are in dire need for bodies.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by buttesnake 2 years ago
Everyone wants Breneman and he is clearly a solid PSU lean at this point. That means it's a major gamble to pass up other highly rated TEs based on the hope you can peel Breneman away from PSU six or eight months from now. If it works, great, but if it doesn't you are left scrambling. I like Hoke's general strategy of offering 3-4 top guys for each slot and taking the first one who commits. You don't always get your #1 pick, but you always get top talent and are not scrambling desperately to plug holes late when you miss on your top picks at positions of need.
No doubt, that's why we've offered 4 and are looking to take 2 after passing on TE last year. Hope we don't regret not offering McNamara we would have had a very good shot at landing him.
Meyer's proven he knows what he's doing it comes to recruiting--given that he routinely puts together top five classes. Safe bet is on his strategy working out versus the "concerns" you lay out.
Michigan is recruiting so well right now because the coaches wrapped up most of the 2012 class early so the coaches got a head start in recruiting for the 2013 class and evaluating. Look at LTT for example, he visited for the Nebraska game and the OSU game and were the first to offer, so in that case getting a kid on campus that early and extending the offer payed off big time.
I respectfully have to disagree that Meyer had great RBs at Florida. I pulled the data from Rivals for the 2006 to 2010 classes (he was there from 2005 to the end of 2010):
Name, height, weight, 40 time, stars, national rank
Chevon Walker – 5’10”, 185, 4.6, 4, NR
Mon Williams – 6’2”, 192, 4.5, 4, NR
Chris Rainey, 5’9, 159, 4.4, 4, 89
Bo Williams, 6’1, 203 4.5, 4, NR
Jeff Demps, 5’9”, 162, 4.5, 4, 241
Mike Gillslee, 6’1”, 205, 4.4, 4, 236
Mack Brown, 5’11”, 185, 4.4, 4, 185
That just doesn't strike me as an impressive haul, especially with respect to bigger backs, though he did indeed try to get them. In fact, I'd easily take the OSU or even UM classes over that time peirod instead. I wouldn't say the lack of production was underwhelming by any stretch given what he had to work with and the fact that Harvin was utilized effectively from the backfield a lot.
I'd say of that group, Demps was a great home run threat and definitely produced and progressed nicely from being a track guy due to his world class speed (no way that 40 time is accurate), and Rainey was ok. In terms of development and achievement, I would be surprised if Demps could have performed better under any other coach. Demps was an edge threat, though, and I think the overall offense would have been even more insane if they'd had a guy who could run through the tackles. I think its pretty clear Meyer believes this as well and definitely wants to establish both forms of the run game. Just look how aggressively he tried to keep Dunn even though we were getting Ball and had bigger guys on the roster already, for instance. If you take a look, we have offers out to all sorts of RB shapes and sizes this year, although they all share the trait of being burners. In my mind, Meyer is trying to build the team that will be able to take down Alabama and knows he needs to be able to pound the ball to eventually be victorious.
The focus definitely is to get another superstar like Tebow or Harvin to walk through the door. You have to say this, if one does walk through the door Meyer is going to make sure that player gets as many looks as humanely possible. If I had a gripe about the prior OSU coaching staff it was that they didn't utilize talent enough. The Meyer philosophy is to make sure the playmakers get the ball as much as possible.
I feel pretty good that whatever OL strategy worked in the SEC should work up here in the B10, as well, due to the strength of SEC DLs. I guess we'll see, though. I don't buy into the superiority of SEC players really anywhere except for the DL, so at least for for me I have faith in whatever Meyer's OL strategy is coming from that background.
"The North shall rise again." General Meyer
Meyer definitely focuses on national recruiting much more so than the prior staff, which will continue to help you in Ohio going forward. The only slow-play that's bothered me so far, though, is Lisle. If OSU had offered him a few months ago he might already be signed up. Now, we look like he's a second choice and we're following other out of state offers, so the risk is his feelings are hurt and he wants to look around more. Many the actual situation is better than that, but that's what it looks like from the outside.
I don't know what the Matuska situation is, but I think all signs do point to Heuerman at OSU to answer star69s post. He's been visiting frequently since his brother came to campus, has a lot of relationships on staff, a lot of his pics show him in OSU garb and he's deciding early. Anything could happen for sure, but that just seems to be the case.
I would keep in mind that total offers are going to be light this year, though, b/c OSU is going to take a very small class. There are 14 seniors, 1 banked schollie, maybe 2 guys leave early at most, then who knows what attrition will be, maybe 2-3? So this class probably tops out at 20 and guys who may have received an offer at this time last year are on the waiting list this year unfortunately. Also keep in mind Meyer still is very new and had to spend every second of his day until a few weeks ago pulling together the 2012 class. As a result, he's naturally behind in evaluating talent and developing relationships (seems like the prior staff fell down a bit in the relationship building department, as well). For all those reasons, you may be able to explain away a fair amount of perceived the Ohio offers slowness this year.
I seriously doubt anyone including Meyer thinks he is going to flip players like last year. He'll try. I'd agree entirely a lot of these guys were parked at other schools and PSU helped a ton. As for being caught flat-footed, I really think the only likely concern was the the Michigan OL haul. I just doubt he cared about the other guys. Its not like our current OL is in terrible shape after great buzzer shots with the 2012 class, but that's still our biggest need area I'd argue. I think every other position frankly is in good shape assuming the chips fall where they should, though always can be improved. I'd think the only question marks are LB, QB, and Meyer has a lot of offers out in those areas, including to local kids and firends and family. The rest of the class I think takes care of itself and any national talent guy we get is icing.
Him slow playing the Ohio kids is going to hurt him, Rich Rod slow played a lot of Michigan kids and it killed our in state recruiting.
My only point is that he may not be intentionally slow-playing the kids as much as it looks like, though probably more so than in the Tressel era. Next year's cycle will be a better test.
A good thing to note about the 'different O-linemen', Lean vs wide...D-Lines like MSU will eat the Spread Olines
I'm not convinced that if the LSU, AL and GA DLs couldn't eat the Meyer linemen alive that MSU will accomplish the trick. Let's not overplay the difference in prototype too much, either. OSU has offers out to Fox and LTT, who were certainly considered big enough for you guys. I doubt Pocic, Bivin and Lisle are contenders for any Richard Simmons awards, either.
Not sure if serious...
Bamas front 7 held Florida to under 100 yards rushing in the 09 SEC champ game and '10 game. Demps and Rainey averaged under 2 yards a touch. This past year I believe they had negative yards per rush. If that isn't dominating, I don't know what is.
I think the problem running the ball in the SEC Championship game was much more a function of not having anyone who could run the ball up the middle than having DLs in the backfield, but I'll admit I'm stale on my game memory. There's no way you're bouncing the ball to the outside on AL, though, which was the cornerstone of the Florida running game at the time. That's why I can't stress enough that OSU will continue to need big backs and I know Meyer realizes this. The AL game really drove that fact home.
As for the 2010 game... let's face it, that just was a disaster season all around for Florida. Don't think for a second I don't have some concerns of that type of year occurring in OSU's future. I think that was a function of Meyer only being half committed at that point and a team just completely out of control. Meyer seems to have learned his lesson on the second point and has instituted a zero tolerance policy. You'll argue that's only been the case b/c he's trying to cull the roster. I'll counter argue that he actually got rid of some pretty solid players, is being extra careful b/c OSU is under the spotlight and he learned his lesson on the dangers of leniency. The reality is we'll only know in a few years. I'll also say that I've been very impressed with the characters of the commits in the 2012 and 2013 classes. I haven't necessarily broadly felt that way in the past.
As for his health, we'll see if he's learned his lesson and keeps the contract with his daughter or not.
I don't have any "concerns". I would love to watch Urbie scrambling next Winter because he waited too long to offer the top talent in his own backyard. And, FWIW, much of the talent he landed at UF were in-state kids who grew up dreaming of playing at UF. They weren't committing to Urbie as much as they were committing to the school. How many Florida kids did Urbie pull in your 2012 class? One? And one not being pursued heavily (if at all) by the major Florida schools. Good luck with Urbie's special magic recruiting touch. If he continues his current pattern of snoozing on the top Midwest kids until they are mostly all committed in order to chase "better" talent down South, he's gonna need it.
I wouldn't overblow the concept of Meyer "snoozing" on the top Midwestern kids. 3 of the 4 kids we've signed for the 2013 class are from Ohio, and we have offers out to most of the top players in the Midwest. Let's take the Rivals rankings:
7 - Burrows - commit
16 - Morris - no chance
18 - Isaac - offered
22 - Breneman - offered
26 - Foster - offered
27 - Pocic - offered
31 - Treadwell - offered
34 - Smith - offered
41 - Marshall - commit
44 - McCray - not offered yet
49 - Elmer - no chance
54 - Kugler - not offered yet
60 - Bosch - not offered
77 - Thomas - offered
83 - Lisle - offered
96 - Butt - not offered
So the ones not offered seem to be lineman under 6'6" (although Lisle admittedly was a late offer and the potential snooze in my mind), McCray and Butt. I'm not sure why McCray hasn't been offered yet. Butt we talked about earlier.
This might be a surprising fact, but according to 247, Ohio State has offered 40 kids from the South, whereas Michigan has offered 44. This, despite the fact that Meyer just came from Florida and a lot of the coaching staff is coming from the South. Moreover, OSU has a good history of recruiting from FL and GA. It doesn't seem like we're stretching for that Southern talent as much as you guys, which is surprising to me, as well. To be fair, you guys generally have a lot more offers out there, though.
Looking back at the Rivals commit lists, only 7 of the 19 5 stars Florida signed from 2006 to 2010 came from Florida so Meyer definitely had a lot of out of state success with the cream of the crop.
Man, I really need to do some actual work today.
I live in Columbus and I'm an ex-high school football official and I still go to games on Friday nights, and I'm not bashing recruits who have commited, just giving an honest overview of the player. Watched the Matuska kid from Bishop Hartley, I believe UM has offered him, he's not as good as advertised, he would be a top of the line MAC player, a so-so Big Ten player. and I know there's been a lot of back and forth on Taco Charlton, he takes plays off... big time! His meter is stuck at 50%.
Does Michigan have the kid from DeSales in Columbus, Rock is his name. I hope he's playing on the offensive side of the ball, he would of been a freshmen at Michigan last year. I watched him play against Bishop Watterson twice and when he was on defense, he was ate alive by a MAC type talented player. But on offense, he was a decent looking tight end, caught a nice td pass in the playoff game against Watterson.
On Taco Charlton, when he does get his meter out of the 50% area, he's very, very good. It's a matter of getting his meter ampped up!
This post was edited by The Professor 2 years ago
Michigan has a ton of offers out right now because we got an early start on evaluating.
Chris Rock is at Michigan but has been converted to a DT/SDE and has gained something like 20 lbs or so since he's been on campus. If he is going to be anything on DL he is at the right school, Michigan has 3 DL coaches who have put tons of kids into the NFL.
On Charlton Michigan fans heard the same about Chris Wormley but when you ask the recruiting guys who saw him in person he owned the competition and they usually just ran it away from Wormley. I think we will see the true Charlton during his Senior season.
Sorry, I know I was overstating the situation, but given your OL situation, why offer Lisle so late? And Bosch and LTT not at all? Or McGovern? Many of these kids will be gone by the time OSU gets around to them or, at a minimum, OSU will have major ground to make up on the leaders. I think the same is true for Jake Butt at TE. I know you are chasing Breneman (so are we), but he is going to be a very tough pull because he grew up a PSU fan and he is being recruited by every top program in the country. Butt is an in-state kid who could turn out as good as Breneman and should be a lock for OSU. But no love from OSU means he is an early commit to your #1 rival and you are going to end up playing against him for 4-5 years. Just my .
Thank God for some sensible recruiting discussions with opponents. Kudos to those so far whose contributions have made the thread "readable."
I don't understand the late Lisle offer either. LTT was offered, though not Bosch or McGovern for whatever reason. Is it coincidence that Bosch and McGovern "only" are 6'5"? I don't know. I think generally the staff was behind the 8 ball after Bollman did nothing for OL recruiting last year and had to scramble just to fill the 2012 class post sanctions and Meyer hiring is part of the issue. Clearly you guys got a solid jump on the Midwestern OL talent and showed no mercy out of the gates for 2013, which leaves us a behind again for OL recruiting. Of course, it doesn't help that kids seem to be signing earlier every year. If either of us had even 2 commits at this time 3 years ago we would have been pumped I think.
I don't know if Butt is a guy we would have offered at some point or not. If we likely would have then we probably dropped the ball there. He may just not have fit the prototype of what Meyer looks for in a TE either, though, even if he's otherwise a solid player. Breneman is a long shot for sure, but watching his tape you definitely can see he fits the mold of what Meyer likes in a TE. Of course, what's not to like, the guy has got crazy skills. Heuerman seems like a high probability OSU sign to me, though has attracted a ton of national interest lately so may not be a lay-up.
McGovern is 6'6" - 6'7"
I stand corrected. I realize now I was recalling Kugler's height in my mind.
Also, the Pounceys are 6'4" each so the sub 6'6" height probably isn't the issue.
This post was edited by richardparker10 2 years ago
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