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Could bad offense be the undoing of this team? Is Borges the offensive Greg Robinson?
Of course, it's Bellomy screwing up in terms of plays not made but Bellomy is the backup and he's about as ready to play as the guys on this forum. And it's not like Denard being hurt is so unlikely a scenario that you shouldn't absolutely be prepared for the eventuality.
But even with Denard Robinson in, it's the 21st game of the Hoke/Borges era and we have no offensive identity or coherent offensive gameplans. The offense is Denard hitting a couple long passes in a game and taking off. We have no consistent running game other than that, we have no rhythm in the passing game. We seem to show no ability to adapt to what opposing defenses do. We have not scored a touchdown vs. ND, vs. MSU and now almost certainly vs Nebraska. Three games this year already.
Can Hoke afford to let Borges drag him down? When poor D killed RR we said, well he might be an offensive guy but he carries responsibility for the whole team. The same applies to Hoke in the reverse. We gotta be real cautious here. With the loss tonight, we are 5-3 and who knows how bad Denard is hurt. Remember, we are *not* bowl eligible yet.
We should fire Borges immediately, especially since Denard Robinson is the perfect QB for the type of offense he is used to running.
Well, to be fair, Hoke hired Borges and Brandon hired Hoke so they all really should be fired.
While obviously that's silly, you can't ignore the fact that you can't have one side of the ball being bad without that reflecting on a head coach.
There's been a Hoke lovefest so far and Borges has taken all the heat but how does our record look next year if Bellomy starts or Shane Morris isn't as good as advertised? What if Denard is out for the rest of the year? These things can change very quickly depending on the W-L record.
Borges calls a terrible game and doesn't recruit. Time for a new OC.
Our O has been horrible against good D's....Borges gotta go. 0 TD's against MSU, and ND speaks volumes .
Am I the only one that thinks that is due to a lack of talent on the field though? Who is our go to receiver (the Manningham, Edwards type?), who is the powerful RB to help Denard? Michigan's offense is like this right now because it has to be due to the talent available. I think it will be significantly better in future years.
We lost a game. It happens. I mean, we did go 11-2 last year. And even including tonight's loss, we are still 5-3 and tied for the lead in the division. But, then again, we lost a game. Heads must roll.
Edit: Also, throw MSC's name on the list of people to fire, too, because she hired Brandon.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MrWoodson 18 months ago
Gardner, but he isn't on their level.
Touissaint went for over 1000, but he sucks this year.
Some talent is there, but he's just not urilizing it effectively imo.
It's pathetic that a loss means everyone starts bitching. Denard was injured for most of the game, you cannot gauge our team based on what transpired tonight. Yeah Bellomy sucks but so do most backup freshmen QB's. Last year, this year and next are all transition years. Sack up and get used to some bumps in the road.
So you think Al Borges has been doing an awesome job I take.
Yes, we can. Denard isn't supposed to be the entire team. Without him on offense, we suck more than usual against good teams.
I gauge that the offense isn't good without Denard.
I don't know if that's fair. Most of the complaints are the same people have had for the past year and a half so it's not like we are all jumping ship after a loss. I've been complaining about Borges since last year but it's obvious there is a lack of talent on offense and he isn't running the system he wants to run so I don't know how much blame Borges should get. Still, his lack of adjustments is disturbing. Even before Denard got hurt we were not threat to pass the ball, really we haven't been all year against any team with a pulse. The whole game plan seems to rely on the defense and hope offense gets enough big/lucky plays to win the game. But when your QB can't throw and your WRs drop everything, what can you do.
All things considered, yes. He can't go into free agency and grab players to fit his system. That's not how CFB works. My guess is that if I took a poll of everyone on this this board when Brady Hoke was hired and asked you all to predict the first two seasons, you wouldn't have predicted an 11-2 season with a Sugar Bowl win in year one followed up by an 8 to 10 win season in year two. Some of you clearly have selective amnesia regarding the waning Carr years and what happened under Rich Rod. Give Coach Hoke and his staff time to get their players in. If they aren't winning B10 championships by years 3-4, you can start to bitch. This is way too soon.
Note: FWIW Nick Saban won his first (and only) SEC championship at Alabama in year three. Winning the conference is not as easy as it looks.
How has Borges been doing a good job? Our O didn't score a TD against ND or MSU.....
Michigan's 11-2 record and Sugar Bowl victory last season is due to Michigan's much improved defense more than anything else.
Btw, Mattison didn't need to get "his players" in to produce immedate excellent results. He was able to adapt.
Thus far, Borges does not compare favorably against Mattison.
This post was edited by Frank C 18 months ago
* * * N E O . R E T R O * * *
Hoke has been successful with subpar talent (in my opinion at least), I can't wait to see what he does with players like Dymonte Thomas and Ondre Pipkins.
That's odd, because I particularly remember our offense pulling our defense's bacon out of the fire against ND and OSU last year or we never would have made it to the Sugar Bowl. And go ask Sparty how well it works when you have a defense but no offense. I certainly don't see them going 11-2 and winning the Sugar Bowl this year. Do you?
This post was edited by MrWoodson 18 months ago
Now you are just being facetious.
Notre Dame gave us that game with 5 turnovers and blown assignments in coverage. Just like we gave Notre Dame the game this year with 6 turnovers (at least 3 of which game Notre Dame excellent field position). You can pretend otherwise but most Michigan fans will agree with me.
Also, the Ohio game was not an impressive showing because Ohio's defense last year on the road was bad. But if you want to hang your hat on Michigan scoring 40 points on a 6-7 team last year, that's your prerogative.
Lastly, Michigan State deserved the Sugar Bowl bid before we did. But don't mistake Denard's ability to improvise (and make something out of nothing) for Al's ability to come up with masterful gameplans.
But I noticed that you ignored my second sentence. Weird. Ya know?
It seems like most of the people complaining about Borges forget how bad the offense was against good teams even under Rich Rod. Outside of Denard and Lewan there just isn't much talent on the offense. Losing Molk hurt more than most people expected .
We didn't win all of our games last year solely with defense. That was my point. In fact, in certain games our defense was outright awful. OSU came into our house last year and moved the ball on us at will. ND did pretty much the same. We won last year with both offense and defense. And we are winning (and losing) this year with both. Was it our offense that allowed AF to run for 290 yards and score 25 points against us this year? Was it our defense that outscored them by putting up 31? It's a team and both the offense and defense have played well and poorly at different times during the past two seasons. We didn't go 11-2 last year based solely on defense. And if you think we did, you don't know very much about football.
We won a few games against better competition last year by either forcing or lucking into turnovers at crucial moments. I know its hard to believe but I actually Rich Rod left us with more talent on defense than on offense. Our defense is incredible this year, especially their play against Nebraska when the offense was just giving the ball back to the Huskers.
We were 61st in total offense before tonight and we will almost certainly drop a few spots after today's debacle. We were 42nd last year, so we have actually seen regression in spite of our QB being a senior now.
When RR's offense struggled big-time in 2008, we at least knew that RR had had success offensively everywhere he'd been and basically knew his stuff. You can't say that with Borges.
Yes, his 2010 SD State offense was nice but that was in the mid-majors and his 2009 offense in the same place was terrible. He spent 2008 without a job and his 2007 offense at Auburn was atrocious, his 2006 one was barely better. 2005 was a decent one considering that he had new personnel, but his best offense there was the 2004 Auburn offense but they had Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams and Jason Campbell so that's not too surprising. I'm not gonna deny that he had great offenses at UCLA and was considered a rising star at that time - but that was like 12-15 years ago.
What I see is a guy with a checkered record, some good, some bad, and there's no reason to be certain that with his players in place he'd create an explosive offense based on that track record unless we completely rely on what he did at UCLA so many years ago. At Auburn things got worse with every year he spent there and the more he had of his own players..
But let's focus on his job at Michigan. What has he done the soon nearly two years since he got here? Is he running the spread option to accomodate Denard? No. Is he running his West Coast offense? Sort of, but not really either. He's run a hybrid, sometimes giving Denard more spread, sometimes sticking more with his WCO. One thing is for sure, it doesn't work well, probably because he isn't creative enough to work the spread well and the players can't run the WCO well. But both should be getting better at it with time, his play-calling should become more intuitively clever as he sees more of the Ds he faces, his players should be getting more adept at running his offense. But it's not happening, it's at best stagnating, more likely it's getting worse because defenses are much better at adapting to what we do than we are at adapting to what they do. And that's on Borges, both on the play-calling and the development front.
This post was edited by UMSkeletor 18 months ago
Oh and I may add a few things. One, so much of our offense that actually works is pure ad hoc stuff on part of Denard. Our designed "special" plays, slow-developing sweep runs and reverses today for example, don't generally go anywhere and Denard's improvised runs are so much better than his drawn up ones as well.
But another thing: We run our QB up the gut, like on purpose, a few times every game, in fact it's the only fairly reliable 4-5 yards on average type running play we have. That's the sort of carry that roughs up 220 pound running backs as 250 pound linebackers and 280 pound defensive ends will tackle you rather brutally. We do it with our fairly lightweight QB. That's got injury risk written all over it. So you'd think you'd make sure your backup QB is feasible and can step in without looking completely inept. At least he should manage the game. Bellomy manages the game like he's the Enron CEO. That's on the coaches as well.
Thanks for inserting a strawman (re: solely on defense) and stating the obvious (re: won with both offense and defense).
But let's get back to my original point shall we? You seem to have forgotten what it is so I'll restate it: Michigan's 11-2 record + Sugar Bowl victory can be attributed to its much improved defense more than anything else.
There were 2 big differences from 2010 to 2011:
- An easier schedule
- Our defense's enormous statistical improvement (i.e. turnover differential, yards given up, points allowed, etc.)
That was my point. If you don't understand that, then just say so but don't be make disingenuous arguments. I usually agree with your posts because they are well thought out but you have made a number of disappointingly shallow posts in this thread.
I strongly suggest that you compare the 2010 offensive stats to the 2011 offensive stats before you make your next post.
This post has been edited 6 times, most recently by Frank C 18 months ago
I will sleep just fine tonight after being so pissed off If hoke will come out and just say I F**** up'ed guys i'm sorry. I'm sorry I let bellomy go into the game (not a D-1 QB). And I'm even more sorry for keeping him in there so long. The kid had no business being in the game whatsoever. Hoke needs to take ownership of this loss tonight. just like he gets credit for the great season last year. its starts with him and ends with him..
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