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I know any season without a Big Ten Championship is a failure. I agree with that, but how many wins is the minimum before you would want to see Hoke's seat get a little warmer?
August 31 3:30 PM Central Michigan* #/17 Michigan Stadium • Ann Arbor, MI BTN
September 7 8:00 PM Notre Dame* Michigan Stadium • Ann Arbor, MI (Rivalry) ABC/ESPN/ESPN2
September 14 12:00 PM Akron* Michigan Stadium • Ann Arbor, MI BTN
September 21 TBA at Connecticut* Rentschler Field • East Hartford, CT
October 5 3:30 PM Minnesota Michigan Stadium • Ann Arbor, MI
October 12 5:00 PM at Penn State Beaver Stadium • State College, PA ESPN/ESPN2
October 19 3:30 PM Indiana Michigan Stadium • Ann Arbor, MI BTN
November 2 TBA at Michigan State Spartan Stadium • East Lansing, MI
November 9 TBA Nebraska Michigan Stadium • Ann Arbor, MI
November 16 TBA at Northwestern Ryan Field • Evanston, IL
November 23 TBA at Iowa Kinnick Stadium • Iowa City, IA
November 30 TBA Ohio State Michigan Stadium • Ann Arbor, MI (The Game)
Looking at the schedule, I say anything less than 9 wins (regular season) will make me uncomfortable without direction.
BTW- I hate posting mobile... Ugh
This post has been edited 5 times, most recently by buttesnake 8 months ago
Hoke's built up enough goodwill over the past 2 seasons that I think he'd have to lose 6 games for the seat to warm up.
So if we go 8-4 you'll want Hoke on the hot seat? That seems like a terrible idea. The direction of the program couldn't be clearer, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there, and remember that Hoke inherited a mess of a situation just two years ago and already has a BCS win under his belt. Plus, the program appears squeaky clean, and I think we're all pleased to have this staff representing the university.
If we don't make it to a bowl game this year, I'll probably start to wonder, but it'll take a lot for me to want the "fire Hoke!" demands to start.
I never demand coaches be fired. I just think that his seat should be warm and I would have my doubts if we won less than 9. It would take 3 or more future lackluster seasons for me to think there is a real problem.
The talent is there and the defense should stay consistently strong.
The reason I think 9 is because of the schedule. It is a lot easier than last year. I think there are 6 must wins (cmu, Akron, uconn, minny, Indiana, Iowa) and one near must win in PSU.
So, out of ND, OSU Neb, MSU and NW, they should win at least 2 of those. If they only won one out of those 5.... Which would give them 8 wins.... Well one out of 5 of the best teams we face.... With 3 of them at home.....
That would not be good and would cause me to have some doubts.
(BTW- I think we win at least 10)
This post was edited by Peterklima 8 months ago
No hot seat for Hoke, period.
This schedule, assuming Devin stays healthy, should yield no more than 2 losses. So, 11-12 wins should be quite possible. If Devin goes down, my TV will be shut off much of the coming season!
For me it's not that simple. It will depend on which games we lose and how we lose them. We now have as much or more talent than every school in the B10 except possibly OSU. And we should be close to even with ND. If we go 8-4 but beat OSU and ND, I wouldn't be happy but I could accept it as progress. We do still have a very young team. If we continue to struggle on offense, I think it will be fair to criticize the coaches on that side of the ball. That said, losing close games because of excessive TOs is far different than looking totally inept and getting blown out. IMO 8 regular season wins is a must and anything less than 10 and I will be disappointed. There is no reason we should have fewer wins than last year. Our team should be better and our schedule is easier. And realistically, we should be competitive in every game we play. If we lose a single game by double digits, I will be disappointed.
This post was edited by MrWoodson 8 months ago
Yeah, I tried to stay away from how quality the wins are and/or over who because a real critique depends on the nuances of the season. I mean if Gardner went down for the whole year (wood knock) I think 8 wins would be good. If we lost all non-conf games and the NW game, but made theBTCG with 8 wins, I would be content.
So all the variables aside.... Based on what we know now and the schedule, if we flashed forward to the end of the season I would be disappointed if we only had 8 wins. We are the 17th ranked team right now. Brady gets lots of credit for what he is doing, but I could see the temp going up a couple degrees if we winless than 9. (But still far away from discontent with him.)
Something to keep in mind with Hoke is that if the recruiting rankings hold true we're on a really nice trajectory with respect to roster talent. We have some talent now, yes, but look forward a few years. The 2012 class looked better than the 2011 class. The 2013 class looked better than the 2012 class. The 2014 class could be even better than the 2013 class, and the 2015 class is off to the best start of all of them.
As long as the program stays clean, and I'd be shocked if it doesn't, let's give Hoke a little time. The future looks incredibly bright, but it'll take time to get there.
Sure. Less than 9 wins almost certainly would just be a bump in the road, but it would be a bump.
9 wins, I agree. Anything less would be disappointment, and a step backward.
It's a simple question, but does not have a simple answer. I will say that first, losing to Ohio is not something I "accept" any year; I will always be disappointed by that no matter what. But as a season on a whole? Well it depends how and why we lose. I tend to think that this team should get 9 wins at least when decently healthy. I would probably still be a little disappointed with less than 10 wins. But it also really depends on how we look. I do think that if the offense gets into debacles like it has often done past few years, Borges may be on the very hot seat. I need to see creativity and coherent and well-thoughout game plans consistently. Something he has struggled with a ton in his career at UM so far.
Losing to Ohio would make anything less than 10-2 extremely frustrating. Beating Ohio would salvage an 8-4 season.
5 years for a coach to prove himself, assuming the program is clearly not heading on a downward trajectory. Coach Beilein won the B1G in his 5th year with lesser talent than his key main rivals, and has demonstrated he can coach up talent. Hoke had a great debut and a sub par 2nd season, 8-4 is not acceptable @ Michigan. Hoke has clearly raised the bar and in terms of W-L, anything less than a 10 win regular season is unacceptable. Additionally he has to beat OSU this season and demonstrate that he can win more than 50% of his road games. I am Hoke fan in terms of the standard and expectations he is setting in terms of recruiting, conduct and bottom line results, I am more reserved in stating he will be a great coach until I see it @ Michigan; I am happy with the current direction of the program. Some worry beads in terms of execution:
QB position needs to improve in terms of production & offensive schemes need to be tailored to exploit opposing defenses. There have been many games where some of Borges's play calling left much to be desired.
OL was pretty bad in run blocking; Funk gets a mulligan but I think he needs scrutiny.
Pass defense and pass rush has to improve. I am not sure if Michigan's secondary will be a liability against good passing QB's.
I will be looking for progress throughout the season.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by kalk69 8 months ago
To me, "What would be a disappointing season?" and "What would get you to want Hoke's seat to be hot?" are very different questions. If my wife makes a "disappointing" dinner, I don't immediately start thinking about divorce.
I'd be disappointed this year with fewer than 9-10 wins. Hoke is good with me for awhile as long as we don't completely crap the bed (4-8 or NCAA sanctions or something).
1. Hoke shouldn't be under the "hot seat", unless they only get like 2 wins or something absurd.
2. I would be disappointed without an improvement from last year at least. 9+ wins.
As many wins as it will take to win the B1G Championship.
If Team 134 falls short of the B1G Championship then it failed which is unacceptable in year 3.
* * * N E O . R E T R O * * *
I want 10 minimum, but it would take a precipitous decline in Hoke's effort or health for me to want him in the hot seat. He's the perfect coach for Michigan. So long as he stays in current form, I'm behind him.
Nobody on this board can define the word regression.... but it sure gets used a lot.
anymore than 2-3 losses and i will not be a happy camper.that being said, NO HOT SEAT FOR HOKE.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but that comes off as 'bandwagon-ish' as heavenly possible...
12 wins is attainable and the best reward possible in my book. 10 reg. season wins + B1G Champ + Rose Bowl victory.
I think 8 wins would be my floor. Anything less, even with a young team, and I would be dissappointed.
I still wouldn't be "happy" with 8 wins and I would want a bowl victory.
I do think without even seeing the team play that it is possible to win every game on the schedule. I don't want to be too much of a homer and predict 12-0 but I think this team will get at least 10 Ws.
Disagree. Like Des said, I look at that schedule and see 12 winnable games. The best possible outcome for this team is a 12-0 regular season, a B1GCG win, and possibly a national title, depending on who we would draw there (if its Alabama, we'd still almost certainly lose that game; if its someone like an undefeated ACC champ or Louisville, I'd like our chances to win).
But, of course, it's not really realistic to expect that to happen. Probably the best reasonable case scenario would be an 11-1 or 10-2 regular season, a B1GCG rematch with OSU that we might or might not win, and an appearance in the Rose or other BCS bowl that we also might or might not win.
I will be disappointed with anything less than a B1GCG appearance. If the B1GCG is between us and OSU, losing to them twice would sting a lot, but I could handle it (in retrospect, not on game day of course) if we lost to them in Game 2 after winning in Ann Arbor.
I wouldn't want Hoke's seat to get hot unless we went like 6-6 or something, and even then, I'd likely want to see what Hoke could do with a different OC before I'd actually want him fired.
Borges is already on my hot seat, here's hoping he can do some things that make me put the #FireBorges bandwagon on blocks.
Ugggghhhh..... Borges hasn't had a single season to work with his pro style offense but you want him in the hot seat. I wont sugarcoat this.... that's dumb af.
Uggghhhh...... Borges has had two seasons to demonstrate creativity, an ability to maximize the talents of the athletes he has to work with, flexibility, and an ability to adjust when the things he's trying simply aren't working and has completely failed to show any of that. But you don't want him in the hot seat. I won't sugarcoat this... that's dumb af.
This post was edited by inuyesta 8 months ago
I don't share DJ's tone or exasperation, but I understand what he's saying. Borges exceeded all reasonable expectations in 2011. Our offense was as efficient that year as it was with Rodriguez, and our offensive coaches were running systems almost entirely unfamiliar to them. It's fair to say that 2012 was a little disappointing relative to 2011, but I think people are way too harsh on Borges given what we've seen so far. I'm excited to see him with Gardner.
I do agree, though, that Borges is closer to a "hot seat" than Hoke. I just don't think he should be all that close yet.
Amen. Borges is on my hot seat as well unfortunately. I know Borges hasn't had what he would like in an offesne, but the high level coaches, the ones that are required to dominate a conference or make national championship games, make what they have work to a certain extent. We see this from Mattison: when he doesn't have the rush linemen he wants, he comes up with zone blitzes to help get pressure. He adjusts coverages to hide weaknesses. No, he's not been perfect, but when he does make a mistake, he admits it and we don't see as much of it again.
Borges seemingly does the same damn thing no matter what. If it's a great game plan, then fantastic! We beat OSU in '11 because Borges finally figured out Denard running was the best game plan when Mattison had a bad game. But if it doesn't work, then Borges doesn't change a damn thing. Like in '12 OSU when he thought running Smith into the non-existant interior line over and over again was a good idea. I believe he's to inflexible and too inconsistent (i.e. finds something that works, then abandons it) to give UM the offense they will need to dominate the B1G or make an NC game, unlike Mattison who I believe is.
Obviously I hope Borges proves me wrong, but he's been on the hot seat for me ever since the last ND game.
If Molk had been a junior instead of a senior in 2011, you Borges haters would have absolutely no ammunition.
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