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RR, yes but Carr won a NC and much more. He had many great recruits over the years.
RR was rejected by many before a game was played. A lot of people were simply unhappy it wasn't a guy with Michigan connections, a lot of people simply hated the spread, a lot of people were very unhappy with how the West Virginia exit played out, a lot of people were unhappy with the staff he hired (or the staff members he did not retain), a lot of people blamed him for Mallett transfering and took Boren's complaints to heart and yes a lot of people were angry at the new, more aggressive tone around the team.
RR is obviously not blame-free in that, he's always had a "if I do this, it's my way, take it or leave it" mentality and he came in with no interest in kneeling in front of the altar of Michigan football. I remember reading an article about him way back after his first year at WVU in which many complaints about RR were uttered which were pretty similar to what was said about him at Michigan. Arrogant, overhyped, stubborn and ignorant of tradition. Of course, he went on to great success at WVU, but the difference is that there he was an alum at a program with somewhat lower expectations and an easier route to winning, while here he was a bold stranger who was perceived as someone changing and challenging everything in a place with a LOT of self-regard and the only way to somehow overcome that negative perception was getting good results *fast*.
I think RR's personality was just on a collision course with the Michigan football environment and it had to do with the context as well. RR was a hire driven to some extent by the understanding that Michigan football didn't need merely a tweak, it needed to be changed on many levels. This was fuelled by Carr going 1-6 vs. Tressel and the Appalachian State game (and getting destroyed by Oregon, somewhat of an upstart then). But the problem was that there was a large group within the program and within the fanbase that did not feel that way at all - to them the RR hire was an affront from the get-go and RR came into this already divided house as one camp's man perceived as hostile by the other (and the Les Miles camp further complicated things). RR being anything but a conciliatory man of compromise was of course the worst possible fit in terms of fixing that divide and it grew constantly under his rule. One of these days, there'll be a mini-series on TV about this, I tell you, loosely modelled after the 80s Civil War-themed North and South mini-series with Patrick Swayze.
But to bring it back to recruiting, not having the full backing from the program, the institution, the local media, the fanbase is always a killer as teams can easily use it against you. Regardless of *why* it was this way, but many things that happened were in some ways a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I guess u didn't read my other post about Carr I said in his late years.
This post was edited by BlueRocks21 15 months ago
I understand that by position it is not apples and apples, but 12 of RRs 22 current recruits are under 200 lbs...way under in many cases...and 7 of Hokes 25 recruits are under 200 lbs. I'm happy that RR had the PAC 12 to go to because he sure didn't fit in the Big 10.
You hit the nail on the head. I mean when you have Hokes freshman class looking bigger and stronger then RR's senior class then there is a big problem with the talent he was bringing in. Can't win like that in the BIG.
I will ask the same thing a Mich fan asked us about Meyer going 12-0 with "Tressels" players.
Since Brady went 11-2 with Mostly RR players and one class of his recruiting, then goes to 5 losses with 2 classes of his players and 2 of RR's, does that mean Brady didn't recruit as well?
We've heard that Urban will lose more as he goes on because his recruits won't work in the BIG, much like RR's didn't. But those RR recruits worked very well for you in Brady's first year.
Not flaming, just asking the same question.
No. I loved the guy and wanted him to coach Michigan for twenty years because he was horrible. I will say that it made the game boring.
I was just looking at how hoke won with his players immediately. That makes me think that the players weren't as bad as the coaching.
Osu had basically the same players this year and was undefeated after a terrible year under an inexperienced head coach and mediocre at best staff.
This post was edited by DollarYo 15 months ago
Are you really asking that ? Have you not looked at who we played this year ? Number 1 Alabama Number 2 Notre Dame and O$U also Nebraska all on the road. 6 away games this year it was a really brutal schedule all around with a team that doesn't have much depth and talent just yet. You guys on the other hand had 8 home games full of cupcakes and the fact that Tressel left Meijer with a better roster doesn't hurt either.
Like I said, wasn't flaming, just asking the same as was asked.... I wouldn't put ND in that convo though...there are about 15 teams I think would beat ND this year, and UM would've 7 out of 10 times, DROB's 6 TO's cost you a 7 point loss..
Now, are you calling Michigan a cupcake??
True we would have beaten ND had DR not had a really bad game but that's not to say they are not a good team. No I wasn't talking about us being a cupcake but you know dam well who u guys played and who we played and had it been the other way around u would not have been 12-0. I remember full well last year when we went 11-2 all the O$U fans cried about us having 8 home games and a weak schedule.
Go look at the senior leadership of the 2011 team. David Molk, Junior Hemingway, Kevin Koger, Mike Martin, Ryan Van Bergen, Will Heininger, Troy Woolfolk. Which "Michigan" were these players recruited to play for?
While I could have certainly done without the Rich Rod years , let's be fair : His last recruiting class was set to close with Sammy Watkins , Jake Fisher , Dee Hart , and Kris Frost . . . That's 3 5 stars and a 4 star if I remember correctly . . . I was originally on the " Give Him One More Year" Bandwagon , because I do think we would have had a pretty good season , especially with a change at Defensive Coordinator and bringing in some elite players to compliment Denard . . . . However , I have to admit that Hoke won me over that first season, after some initial skepticism on my part . . . and it seems like he has Michigan headed back to the Glory Days !
Nothing was going to make the defense successful under Rodriguez; nothing. You cannot succeed at something you don't put any effort into.
Brady has really only had 1 recruiting class....the 2011 class he inherited was all Rich Rod, probably 95% of it was who committed (someone can fact check that math). Ohio was in much better shape when Urbs took over with depth and upper classman contributing depth wise if you ask me. And the QB he got might be his best QB that he ever will coach.
When Rich Rod came to Michigan he sure did not have the quality of players that Meyer had/has. The best example of this is at the QB position. There is no way Ohio would have won the games they did without Miller. He was and is a great player. When Rich Rod came in he refused to adapt and tried to make pro style QBs play the spread and we got spanked. Add in the fact that Michigans defense was such a mess there was no hope. Yet Rich Rod did not learn either. He saw how tough the BIG was with monster linemen and he believed his smaller, quick people could prevail. He was wrong. Then to pile it all on RR had no support from the alum at all. A few spoke up but the power people hated him and he was gone before he ever started. We shall see what Hoke does. In fact it is not Hoke but rather the OC. I was not happy with the way he used Robinson this year and am not convinced he is all that great. Again, we shall see. Great players coming in and that will continue. However, if Meyer has great success at Ohio using the spread then we will know it is more about the coach and not the system.
I assume you mean the best QB that he'll ever coach at OSU.
Seriously, all you have to see is that Meyer got Braxton Miller when he came in, and RichRod had Steven Threet, Nick Sheridan, and David Cone.
That is a great point. Remember that Terrell Pryor was being recruited by Michigan. I imagine if he would have chosen you that rich rod would still be coaching you. That would have weakened osu And definitely made Michigan stronger. It's amazing that one recruit could make such a huge difference.
I'm not sure you would want Pryor on hindsight, but at the time it would have been huge.
In a way Pryor screwed both programs.
Yeah, having the #1 QB in America, who was great for RichRod's system, would've been excellent, but I don't think it would've given RichRod any more time. The utter lack of a defense and collapse of every unit except for the offense would've doomed him, regardless of who was at QB. Pryor just would've been Denard, but one year earlier.
Nick Sheridan and Steven Threet as your only options in a run-based spread. That is all I have to say about 3-9. Most of that 3-9 is on a combination of Bill Martin and Lloyd Carr.
Even if RR got Pryor, we weren't going to beat .500 that year. The team was bad in general and on top of it, our QBs were awful. I don't hold it against Sheridan or Threet because they were trying, but I am closer to Sheridan in talent than Sheridan is to a typical Michigan QB.
I completely agree with this. Hoke was hired on January 11, Meyer was hired right after Thanksgiving, so it's tough to compare 'first' classes. Hoke's 'first' class was mostly trying to keep RR guys and adding where we could. The Kalis/Strobel/Wormley/etc. class was what I consider Hokes first real opportunity to show what he had.
To answer Robo - the worse record this year was a combination of losing some great seniors (ESPECIALLY Molk. Most underrated Michigan player of the last 10 years, IMO) and having a much tougher road schedule.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by hardware_sushi 15 months ago
Yeah, last year we still had the last remnants of Carr's recruits, and now we're going to deal with the pain of having practically no good upperclassmen, thanks to RichRod.
That's a bit unfair, Lewan, Ryan, Gallon, Gardner, all RR recruits, will *hopefully* be good to very good upperclassmen next year and there are a couple more who could be serviceable. It's fairer to say that we haven't got a lot of depth among upper classmen.
If RR got Pryor , I think we definitely would have been over .500. Remember we still had a pretty good defense that year. It's just our offense was utterly awful to watch and constantly turned the ball over. I definitely think with Pryor and that defense , we would have gone 7-6 or 8-5 at least.
With a .500 season under his belt , then maybe the detractors aren't as loud , maybe we get a better 2009 recruiting class , and maybe , just maybe Rich Rod is still the coach . . . Who knows ?? But it is crazy how one recruit could have potentially changed everything . . . For better or worse . . .
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