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I know the record was not good and the recruiting (defense especially) was not typical Michigan, but were the recruiting classes really that terrible? Robinson is obviously an all time wolverine great and probably a national great. He is the only wolverine I have ever rooted for. There seem to be some speedy guys at wr. Hoke did have success with the same guys once they were coached better.
What do you think the same group of kids record would have been if hoke was the coach instead of Rodriguez? ( I realize he would not have recruited the same kids.)
Over half of the 2010 class is gone. You tell me.
We have one receiver who would get playing time in the days of Braylon/Manningham/Breaston etc. and that's Gallon. The OL recruiting set the program back and the secondary is awful. Not to mention half of the 2010 class departing. Yes. It was that bad.
We currently have 4 OL on scholarship from 3 of his classes combined. And people wonder why Hoke is forced to take 5/6 OL in each class. Team this with the low-character kids he recruited who didn't work hard/pan out and his mis-utilization of talent. F*ck Rich Rod.
This post was edited by Mitch Again 15 months ago
I didn't realize it was that bad. How can that guy win at AZ and WVU and not at Michigan? It is mind boggling. Would you give up that era if it meant you never got Denard? You lost some games, but he was pretty fun to watch.
We've already seen just how much better Hoke can do with RichRod's kids than RichRod could, the 2011 season is evidence of that. I think Hoke makes that team into at least a consistent 7-6, 8-4 team. Of course, it'd probably be even better than that, since Hoke arriving wouldn't have forced out Ryan Mallett.
As for RichRod's classes, don't be fooled by the few huge stars like Robinson and Lewan. In 2011, most of the biggest stars were still Lloyd Carr's guys (RVB, Mike Martin, Molk, etc.) - so we've got a huge talent gap between the last of the Carr regime and the start of Hoke's recruiting.
I keep telling people just how devastating RichRod's recruiting was, so let's examine it:
RichRod's first class had 22 commits. Of those 22, 7 left the team for various reasons. This was probably RichRod's best class, as it produced Lewan, Robinson, Roh, Toussaint and Gallon. However, this was the start of the absolute decimation of the OL/DL depth at Michigan. There was only one DT in the class (BWC) and only 3 OLs (Lewan, Schofield, Q.Wash).
26 commits, 13 left the team. 50%. Unbelievable. Although this class is best known for the Demar Dorsey failure, the entire class was pretty miserable. In order, the best 3 players from this class are: Jake Ryan, Devin Gardner and...Drew Dileo. Yes, that's right, Drew Dileo. The OL woes continued too, as the only OL RichRod brought in for this class (Christian Pace) left the team. How a coach thinks he can win with a grand total of 4 OLs over 2 classes is beyond me.
19 recruits, 5 left the team. The OL recruiting was again miserable, as Tony Posada (gone) and Chris Bryant were the only true OLs brought in - Jack Miller was a DT switched to C. Counting Miller, we're now at a total of 7 OLs over 3 classes, only 4 of whom are still playing OL for Michigan. The best player in this class was Blake Countess, followed by Desmond Morgan and Frank Clark. This class is also notable because it contained the ONLY TE RichRod ever got to commit (Chris Barnett, who promptly transferred out a year later).
3 classes, 67 commits, 25 who left Michigan. 7 OLs. 1 TE. The best receivers out of those 3 classes were afterthoughts, Gallon and Dileo. None of the highly-ranked playmakers panned out - you could make an argument for Fitz, but after this year, I'm not counting on him. RichRod should also be commended for taking 3 scholarship kickers in 3 years - clearly, we needed more kickers than TEs. I can't stress enough just how bad the recruiting was under RichRod.
I remember when Hoke first got hired and we started hearing names of guys Hoke was recruiting who had high interest in UM. After being numbed by RR recruiting I just assumed they were "overlooked, underrated" 3 star types I was so used to under RR. I was shocked when the player rankings list started coming out and so many of the recruits were on the lists. Really an eye opener for me how low we had fallen.
This year you can add OSU and UM recruiting class rankings together and almost multiply it by 2 1/2 before you get the next B1G class. Osu2 UM 6 UN 19 Psu 21. Both classes seem to be balanced as well. There really is no excuse for the Rich Rod era.
Because you don't have to play defense in the Pac-12. It's all offense, and the defenses, save Stanford and Oregon-ish, are abysmal.
"Not to mention half of the 2010 class departing."
That is not really a true measurement. When new coaching staffs come in, players often leave in droves because they either don't fit the system or the coaching staffs themselves want to go a different direction. That being said, I think Rich Rod left the cupboard really bare in terms of OL depth and on various positions on the D. So yes, I thought the recruiting was not up to snuff for typical Michigan teams. For a spread option oriented team, however, the offense would have been just fine. Since the team is moving towards pro sets, the recruiting just seems worse than it probably was.
This post was edited by kzmma 15 months ago
Thats a good question. Let's say Hoke get's hired when RR did. Mallet probably wouldn't have left so we probably would have been good at QB and obviously in better shape around the board with Hoke at UM. With that said I love Denard but i think Michigan would have been better off so yes 100 give up denard. RR set Michigan back for 8 years with his recruiting.
Put it this way: Which of Michigan's offensive players would you want playing in Meyer's spread system at OSU? That should give you a good indication of just how good the recruiting was, regardless of system.
Sure. RR was a disgrace in many ways: First sanctions (though minor) ever in the program, worst head coaching record in 100 years, worst season record in probably 50 + years, recruiting classes consistently poorly ranked....
Are you trolling for something. This discussion is easily Googled here or MGoBlog.
This post was edited by Uncle Newt 15 months ago
I'm not exactly sure what trolling means. I have degrees from UK and osu. I root for them above all others but also love B1G above other conferences.
I like this board and the Oklahoma board because I usually get responses. I try not to say negative things about the home team. Sometimes the osu and UK boards are too much Koolaid.
Honestly, I think RR's recruiting was somewhat damaged by the same thing that also led to various other problems - he was a "poor fit" and by that I mean he was rejected extremely quickly by a large % of Michigan fans, Michigan alums and as we later found out people within the university and athletic department as well. And those things tend to radiate outward. You can't succeed at a program if not everyone is pulling in the same direction.
The spread option doesnt use ol?
You don't need to have huge maulers. Look at Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Oregon, and Ohio to some extent. Not real huge linemen or anyone besides Max Unger that has had a solid NFL career.
Courtesy of Tom VH.
Let's look at actual numbers (recruiting wise)
You guys are upset, and I understand that, but let's look at some numbers to help explain why Michigan is at where they're at right now. This is not meant to be a dig on any of the players, or say that rankings are always right because they're a prediction/projection. That being said, take a look at what Brady Hoke and Al Borges are working with on offense.
2008 Class still on the roster:
OL still on the roster (3):
Ricky Barnum: #4 OG, 80 rating (equals a 4-star)
Elliott Mealer: #42 OT, 77 rating (equals a 3-star)
Patrick Omameh: #113 OT, 69 rating (probably a 3-star)
WR still on the roster (1):
Roy Roundtree: #104 WR, 3-star
You have three OL, one WR, no QB's, RB's or TE's from this class still on the roster.
One four-star remaining on the offensive roster.
2009 Class still on the roster:
Denard Robinson: #7 ATH, 81 rating (equals a 4-star)
Taylor Lewan: #12 OT, 80 rating (4-star)
Michael Schofield: #40 OT, 77 rating (3-star)
Fitz Toussaint: #28 RB, 79 rating (4-star)
Vince Smith: #60 RB, 77 rating (3-star)
Jeremy Gallon: #80 ATH, 77 rating (3-star)
One QB, Two OL, Two RB and One WR.
Three 4-stars left on the offensive roster.
2010 class still on the roster:
Devin Gardner: #5 QB, 4-star
Ricardo Miller: #27 WR, 4-star
Jeremy Jackson: #39 WR, 4-star
Jerald Robinson: #99 WR, 3-star
Drew Dileo: #137 ATH, 3-star
Stephen Hopkins: #50 RB, 3-star
There are No QB's and No OL left from this class (Christian Pace was the only one committed), only One RB left and he has moved to FB and there are three 4-stars left.
2011 class still on the roster:
Russell Bellomy: #35 QB, 3-star
Justice Hayes: #22 RB, 4-star
Thomas Rawls: #84 RB, 3-star
Jack Miller: #53 DT, 3-star
Chris Bryant: #37 OG, 3-star
One 4-star on the roster and No WR's.
So now let's sum all of that up. Between the 2008 and 2011 classes, which is 4 recruiting classes you have the following:
Two QB's. One 4-star and one 3-star. Two quarterbacks over four classes, and Bellomy was added late after Hoke got here.
SEVEN OL. TWO 4-stars. That's seven offensive linemen over four classes. To compare, there are 8 OL commits between the 2012 and 2013 class. There were TWO 4-star OL in these four classes, Michigan has double that amount in the 2013 class alone. One OL commit between these four classes (Barnum) was ranked in the top five at his position, however Lewan is an exception here obvs.
Six WR's. Two of the receivers were four-stars, one of them (Ricardo Miller) is nowhere to be found. Only two, including Miller were in the top 75 at their position.
Five RB's, one has moved to FB. Two 4-stars, none in the top 25 at the RB position.
@OP - Are you one of those OSU fans that think RR was an awesome HC, he just needed a better DC?
That's outdated as well. Miller has left the team, but the point has been made. The team lacks talent right now, but Hoke is building it back up.
Dick Rod and Carr held us back for years. Only now our we just starting to rebuild the team with top talent.
The recruiting from the RichRod to the Hoke era is seriously night and day. It's completely disturbing how badly RichRod could mess up Michigan recruiting.
Yes he was awful loading the team up with 3 star player's but Carr wasn't all that great either in his last few years he didn't bring in great players. Its why Hoke is stuck having to do the dirty work.
He did bring in Mallett, Mike Martin, RVB, David Molk, and a handful of others, but I do agree that the last few years of the Carr era weren't on par with his earlier years.
Yes its't just annoying to have to put up with all those lost years. We have to hear from stupid BIG fans saying how Hoke is a bad coach just because he had a few losses this year to top ranked teams they forget that he is working with less talent then most top 10 teams. The fact we almost beat SC in the bowl game was remarkable in its self. They had much better talent then us.
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