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We are college football
Let's do the math...
But before we do, let's consider two things:
1. You are comparing 2011 - 2012 Aaron Craft (a sophomore) to 2011-2012 Trey Burke (a freshman).
2. You are using a team accomplishment (Final Fours) to judge individual performance. This is a fallacy.
Now back to point #1:
Aaron Craft 2010 - 2011: 6.9 ppg, 4.8 apg, 2.9 rpg, 2.0 spg, 2.1 tpg
Aaron Craft 2011 - 2012: 8.8 ppg, 4.6 apg, 3.2 rpg, 2.5 spg, 2.2 tpg
Trey Burke 2011 - 2012: 14.8 ppg, 4.6 apg, 3.5 rpg, 0.9 spg, 2.8 tpg
If you compare Craft's freshman year individual stats to Burke's freshman year individual stats, most will tell you that Burke had the better year. The only thing that keeps this close is Craft's on the ball defense.
Btw, this is the first year that Coach Beilein will have as much (if not more) talent than Coach Matta. Keep that in mind.
This post was edited by Frank C 23 months ago
* * * N E O . R E T R O * * *
Good, you guys won last year. We're the better team this year.
Good one, Brady Hoke. How did you come up with that?
Trolls gonna troll
No idea how this is even a discussion/debate... Burke is a better ball player. Wide open jumper -craft or my puppy - I'll take my dog.. fat boy 2 in vert himself(sullinger) would agree that Burke is better!
Not a whole lot of basketball gurus in this thread.
Let me just say first that a UM fan but more importantly as a basketball fan that I LOVE Aaron Craft's game. He's such an old school typical Big Ten point guard. Like a Rajon Rondo just without a tenth of the athleticism. Makes everyone on his team better on the offensive end, plays literally perfect man to man defense, like textbook stuff, and makes every hustle play. Seriously can't say enough about the kid. Love him the same way I loved watching Zack Novak for 4 years.
BUT, he's nowhere near the individual player Trey Burke is. The difference between Burke and Craft is that Craft could never dream of doing all the things on the court that Trey can do so he has to focus on defense and hustle plays. When someone proposed what it'd be like if Burke and Craft switched teams, they pretty much hit it on the head. After this basketball season with all the talent coming and staying in Ann Arbor this won't even be a discussion although it really shouldn't be now.
He got a B1G championship without Sullinger. And he did it with a lot less talent around him. I'm curious as to what your next argument will be.
This post was edited by hownowbrowncow 23 months ago
im curious about these stats. i think you have made one of the 2 best comments in this thread so far because it was informative and made me think. one stat im curious to know if you can pull it up would be shooting percentage. i think its clear that burke likely took many more shots while he was playing then craft did for the minutes he played. if you can find those stats and post them or pm me id appreciate it. also if possible id like to know an efficiency stat if they actually have those for college basketball.
again i realize that that particular stat is influenced by how the teams performed but at the same time lack of offensive production from other players on teams allows for individual players to do more and make them look more valuable.
this isnt meant to be demeaning to anybody but is just kind or realistic in general.
to prove this besides being a buckeye fan im also a knicks fan. i look at a guy like wilson chandler who put up very impressive numbers for the knicks when they didnt have much talent on their team but nobody believed he was a star, but his numbers showed that he was because of lack of production from others
its for this reason that im interested in shooting percentage, efficiency ratings and also what percentage of shots for his particular team did each player attempt.
i think these stats could further help this thread into seeing how these players stack up to each other offensively
i didn't know fitz played in the bama game. damn! your telling me that I missed the game. I love bucknuts thread on fitz. saying hoke doesn't discipline his players because fitz is practicing. hoke suspended a michigan player last year and he missed the whole spring. turns out the michigan player was found not guilty and it was a mistake. is it fair for a player to miss practice before he goes to court. fitz is going to practice. his court date is next week and he will be guilty and will not play in the bama game, you guys also claim that hoke wont suspend his best players. he suspended stonum the whole year. stonum messed up again and he got kicked of the team. stonum was going to be are best WR this year and one of the best in the big ten. kids at florida messed up 18.104.22.168.7 times and they were still on the team. meyer is a joke. tressel knew about everything going on at his program and never said a thing. tressel and meyer are both weasel scum bags.
they claim braxton is better than denard. they also say braxton was already better than denard last year. their argument they use is denards passing game. have they seen braxton throw. braxtons arm is worse. the guy throws balls into the dirt. they claim he has the better arm, hes faster and hes a better runner . I never take them serious. every thing they say when it involves michigan is ignorant. you cant debate with these guys.
Just ask espn scouts who will get drafted higher. Boom. Better player. Better team. /story
This post was edited by smith2ginn 23 months ago
who cares what someone says. just cause they say it doesn't mean its gonna happen. will bump this thread on draft day and you will look like a fool when burke goes ahead of craft
come talk to me when braxton can throw for 2500 yards, run for 1700 and have 32 total td's in a single season
PER or player efficiency rating is generally the one stat that can be used to compare all players on one platform. It takes all the stats, positive and negative, and relates them to a per minute basis until it boils down to one number. The problem with PER especially in this scenario is that it's mainly an offensive statistic. The only two defensive stats that go in are steals and blocks so PER really doesn't accurately present a players defensive value. However since you've asked, Burke's PER last season was 19.4 compared to Craft's 18.3 rating.
Also, Burke shot 177 for 409 (.433) last season while Craft shot 115 for 230 (.500). But when you look at their usage percentages, Burke's nearly doubles Craft's proving UM's offense relied much more heavily on Burke than OSU's did on Craft yet Burke still had a higher assist percentage and assists per game. Also, Burke's effective shooting percentage, which takes into account that threes are worth one more point than a 2 point basket, is 50.3% compared to Craft's 55%. So overall, by metric statistics Craft does have a much better defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions), but Burke is clearly the better overall player.
keep on livin in hypothetical world
UM relied far more on Burke because we had far less talent around him. If you put Craft on our team in place of Burke last year, we probably would have been a .500 team in conference. Burke is more versatile and athletic and has a more complete game. He also has more upside due to his athleticism. Craft will never improve significantly from where he is at today. Burke will.
That why I say after this year we're all really gonna see how good this kid is. His points will be easier to come by and he'll really be able to show off how great of a passer he is. Adding GR3 on the wing will be huge for him as well as just having a year of college basketball under his belt. Michigan vs Indiana for the conference this year IMO
"craft will never improve significantly"...really? what makes you think that? please enlighten us.
aaron craft shoots far less and is way more efficient with the ball, if he had to score for his team he would, and better than burke. like i said, burke's a wannabe wing man of course he's gonna score he shoots 15x a game.
@ boom!!!! !! ur a god damn idiot!
If the game of basketball involved never scoring points than sure, Craft is better than Burke. Unfortunately you have to score points in basketball games to win them.
I dont care about either of these players who will not be significant after college
gobigblue21 answered your questions well. Props to him.
lol you keep proving that you either know nothing about basketball or are just a huge homer, maybe both. OSU practically played 5 on 4 with Craft on the floor. Opposing point guards would leave him whenever he didn't have the ball a roam the floor because leaving Craft open wasn't a threat. And that's not because Craft didn't have to score, it's because he can't on a consistent enough basis to warrant even being guarded. Burke on the other hand was the main threat of the UM offense. And tell me why a wannabe wing man has a higher assist percentage than Craft?
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