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That's crap. You are including inflated stats against teams like IU and Miami(OH) and Cal. Wisky held OSU to 14 points in regulation (1 offensive TD and one punt return for a TD). MSU held OSU to 17 points total. Hell, even Purdue held them to 22 points in regulation and Purdue's defense stinks. Carlos Hyde basically had a career day against us yesterday and that is a major reason why we lost. His rushing yardage is the equivalent of what Lacy and Yeldon rushed for against us combined in the Bama game. Sorry, but the D doesn't get a pass because they held OSU a couple of times to FGs. They also allowed three TDs. Take away even one of those TDs and we win the game.
Deleted mobile double post.
This post was edited by MrWoodson 20 months ago
The OSU defensive stats also include the games against bad offenses thus it's not "inflated" at all in the sense you mean. Just for the record, OSU's biggest offensive output occurred vs. Nebraska, the team we couldn't even score a touchdown on (with all our starters in the 1st half as well).
Of course I expected us to hold OSU to less than 38 points, but given that OSU's D was considered soft by most and they missed their best defensive player, you'd expect to score more on them than the other teams they've played.
We can also bring in another metric here - Mattison's D held OSU to two field goals in the 2nd half. Borges's offense scored 0 points in the 2nd half. Adjustments?
By the way, if you really try to argue that Mattison hasn't outperformed Borges by miles then maybe football isn't really the sport for you either.
Using your twisted "let's look only at the score and use only one half of the game" logic, Mattison didn't outperform Borges in the first half yesterday.
And if the final score was Michigan 42 OSU 40, I would sing Borges' praises all day long with you. But it didn't, in combination of first and second half we held OSU to a respectably low score while ourselves scoring less than you would expect. The D tightened up and gave us a shot to win, just like they did vs. ND and heck they refused to surrender against Nebraska for ages as well. In all those instances the offense failed to step up when necessary.
If you can't see that then I am wasting my time here. Nobody says Mattison's D was *perfect* but it was the best damn thing about this team.
The defense was awesome in the 2nd half, like usual. Especially considering how bad the O was, and the bad situations they put the D in. Mattison is great at making half time adjustments, unfortunately the same can't be said for Borges.
No one is knocking Mattison. But you don't get to ignore poor defensive play in the first half because the defense played well in the second. And there is absolutely no excuse for Carlos Hyde rushing for 146 yards against us. He didn't do that to Cal or UCF or Purdue or virtually anyone this year. What you are doing in saying we lost simply because Borges made poor halftime adjustments would be like me saying we lost because Mattison did not have his guys properly prepared coming into the game. It's an oversimplification of what happened and why we failed to win. A game is four quarters, not two, and there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the ball if you look at the entire game and not just one half of it.
This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by MrWoodson 20 months ago
I am sure Hoke is a fine coach from a program organization standpoint and looks to be a fine recruiter. But I am very unimpressed with the job he does during a game. The U of M OC was obviously struggling to come up with an offensive gameplan in that game, the QB rotation made no sense, U of M did nothing in the 2nd half and his call to go for it on 4th down near midfield was atrocious.
It's pretty simple really...the OSU O-Line manhandled UM's front 7. So yes, there is an excuse for Hyde rushing for 146.
Dude, he rushed for that much because our D was swarming Braxton. If we let Braxton run loose this game gets outta control and we lose by 20. Letting Hyde get the ball was the gameplan. On most of all the zone reads...our DE took Braxton and made him give the ball up. Its pick your poison....Hyde had a great day but thats not the reason we lost. We lost cause of turnovers and failing to pick up 1 or 2 yards in key situations. Period. I put no blame on this defense that basically made ohio work for every yard.
"Those Who Stay...Will be Champions"
Ehh, the defense wasn't completely without fault. The tackling was shaky at times and the corners struggled with getting off blocks. Not to mention the occasional lapse in zone coverage. But overall, yes the defense did it's job.
This is Michigan, fergodsakes.
Wisky shut down Hyde while containing Braxton. So did MSU. You better hope that wasn't the defensive strategy because we have to face BM again next year and I don't think they are going to agree to take Carlos Hyde out of the lineup just to make our lives easier. The bottom line is you have to stop both BM and Carlos Hyde. That's how defense works. If you want to get the ball out of BM's hands by forcing him to hand it off to Hyde, fine, but then you better be ready to tackle Hyde. Focusing all your attention on one player while others have career days is not going to win you a lot of games.
This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by MrWoodson 20 months ago
Last time I checked, Al Borges wasn't in charge of our DL or our LBs.
Yesterday's loss was a bitter pill to swallow. Looked familiar to some of the rose bowl losses to USC where we had a coaching staff unwilling to throw a punch or attempt anything effective as they went down with the ship and hopeless gameplan. We had numerous chances in the second half and yet we made mistakes like elect to run an undersized rb up the middle. We had the option of having both DG and DR out on the field yet the worst possible decisions were made. Borgess is as inept of a fool as they get. The only way a coach makes decisions like that would be if he was trying to lose the game or borderline mentally retarded. I've seen all I needed to see and saw nothing close to anything that could have gave us a chance. This fool needs to go. Lesser talent will beat us with this fool calling plays. He's Deboard reincarnated. I expect a hell of a lot better.
I'm not going to deal with the rest of this post, but when has Borges lost to inferior talent while at Michigan?
Iowa last year? Maybe? You could almost argue ND this year too...
Guys, well-played game. Just wanted to say that many of us feel that Mattison is a class guy and seems to be doing a lot. This is not a troll post or anything, but before The Game, many of us discussed the fact that Hoke doesn't wear a headset. I'm puzzled as to why that is. I understand delegating offense and defense, but it seems (to an observer) that he is having no input at all. At first I was surprised to see some of the sentiments from UM fans, but I guess I do understand them. Would Mattison be a better HC?
The Father, The Son... well, it's the
The Holy Trinity... as I see it.
I dont know. Iowa sends A LOT of players to the NFL. I think they have sent the 3rd most since 2000. I think Iowa had more talent than us last year.
And definitely not ND. Even though they were down, they always recruited well
Watching the game, I continually was baffled when UM ran up the middle when they needed crucial 3rd down conversions. While OSU's defense has been up and down this year, the running game up the middle of the field has been shut down almost entirely. Michigan seemed to run at-will on either end and as I said, I was stunned they didn't choose to run to either end with Denard when the 1st down was desperately needed. How do UM fans feel about those calls? I haven't seen every game of yours this season, although Ive seen many, but I was dreading the UM offense would continually run the plays to the corners, as we seemed to get torched all day there. Just surprised.
ND doesn't have inferior talent. The talent on O is a push, but they have a better OL and better RBs. And they have much better talent on D.
I guarantee you Coach Hoke doesn't care what it looks like to you. And I'm pretty sure no one on this board does either.
Wisky gave up an average of 6 yards per carry to Hyde. The only reason he didn't break 100 yards is he only got the ball 15 times. He was just short of it. All season long, Hyde averaged 5.2 yards per carry. It's safe to say no one shut him down. He only had 27 yards against UCF because he got injured and missed the following two games. He still was only 30 yards short of 1,000 for the season. Only one team truly "shut down" Hyde, and that was Penn State. Hyde carried 22 times for only 55 yards (2.5 ypc). Other than that, he really wasn't stopped all season long.
Urban Meyer is using players that were not recruited for his scheme either. The result in his "1st" year...12-0. We were lucky at times, I know, but to make excuses for the results of 4 losses when you are the school up north is disappointing. Your team and my team are supposed to be the heavy weights of our conference. Demand that of your coach as we did/do. 8-4 would still of got Fick replaced. Also your assistant coaches are superior to what we had last year, so 8-4 is unacceptable to me and I root for "Ohio". Good game on Saturday and see you in your house next year.
This post was edited by tlfowler4 20 months ago
Miami(OH), UCF, MSU, UNL, PUR, and PSU all held Hyde to fewer total yards and fewer ypc. Wisky held him to much fewer total yards (87 versus 146) on very slightly higher ypc (5.8 versus 5.6), but I guarantee you if Urbie thought he could have gotten another 60 yards at that rate against Wisky he would have. You struggled to move the ball the entire game against Wisky. You scored 7 offensive points in regulation. Urbie didn't give Hyde more carries because he did not believe it would be effective. Including OT, you had a total of 236 yards against Wisky (139 rushing and 97 passing). Against us, you had a total of 396 yards (207 rushing and 189 passing). Wisky defended you much better than we did and that should not be the case.
The talent argument is nothing but utter horsesh1t. The Michigan talent was not utilized, therefore we will never know just whether we did have the talent needed to win the game. Gardner was taken out of rythm the entire third quarter to sacrifice a zero yard gain up the middle by Denard. When you have coaching this bad no amount of talent can make a difference. Foolish coaching can neutralize a talent advantage in a heartbeat as we often saw during the Carr era. I know what I saw out there on Saturday and I'm pissed. We weren't stuffed on offense due to a lack of talent. We were stuffed because the coaching staff elected to call the plays the OSU defense could and would most likely stop. If they found a play that worked and made it 2nd and one then they found a few more plays that didn't. Michigan deserves way better than this. It's been many years since we've been relevant unless you consider 3 or 4 losses every year by a team who recruits top ten yearly relevant. It's too bad Greg Mattison couldn't be our head coach. He did as good of a job as he possibly could considering the offense was three and out the entire 2nd half. Giving up just 6 points to the Ohio offense on little rest made it an amazing feat. I will guarantee the defensive side of the ball has a lower star ranking than the offensive side does and yet the defense did a fine job stopping the most potent part of the Ohio State team. Our failure to score just one touchdown with all the talent we do have is mind boggling. No bubble screens to DR, or screens in general and nothing with both of them out there. Some coaches play to win. Borgess flat out played to lose. I don't want to see another year with this idiot out there on our sideline. I saw enough of that over the Carr years. It doesn't matter who or what we recruit when idiot decsions like that are being made from the sideline.
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