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Rondo was actually invited to the team USA camp and very likely would have made the team in 2010 I believe but declined mainly because he's an a-hole. Kyrie is great but he's not quite as dynamic as rondo yet. What people never seem to mention about Rondo because of his great passing and defense and below average scoring, is his rebounding. The guy gets triple doubles like they're nothing. He's easily a top 5 PG right now and I think it's indisputable.
This list really questions what you value in your point guard. Most of these guys are relied apon to be premeire scorers for their teams and in today's NBA scoring is a big measuring stick for PG's. Traditionally they were compared by how they distributed the ball and how they made the guys around them better. My list goes
1.CP3- as many have said most well rounded, gives you the best of both worlds.
2. Rondo- regardless of position, he's just a great all around player.
3. Williams- slight edge over Rose, equal passer IMO better scorer because of better shooting touch
4. Rose- incredible player, incredible slasher and finisher at the rim, but 4 on my list because his teams have been really really good around him helping him succeed.
5. Parker- Maybe the most undervalued player in the league. Great all around offensive game.
6. Westbrook- Easily has the talent to be #1 on this list but he just isn't a true point guard. Still one of my favorite players
7. Irving- to be at this spot after 1 season, that's special. Kids gonna be elite very soon.
8. Nash- offensive game still hasn't regressed but finds himself at 8 because he's a complete defensive liability
9. Lawson- Another undervalued guy. Incredible speed and quickness.
10. Wall- Would most likely be higher if he wasn't playing for the NBA's special olympic representative for the last 2 seasons. Blatche, McGee, Young and co all great players but too undisciplined to succeed together.
THANK YOU! Anyone who still watches them knows that's not the case. KG was a beast last year and Paul Pierce's game might legitimately get better with age. He never beat anyone with speed and quickness to begin with.
Watch out for my Celtics this season, the Spurs of the East.
Good point. And with Golden State struggling, I admittedly haven't seen him play as much in the NBA as most of those other guys.
Scal for president!
Quick funny story about him. In the 07-08 season, the year Boston won it all, I saw the Celtics play in Memphis. The Grizzlies were awful, and the Celtics blew them out. By the end of the game, most of the fans left were Celtic fans, and we all worked our way down close to the Boston bench. Someone started the Scal-a-brin-e chant, and it got really loud.
Suddenly, Doc stands up and motions at him to go in. Scal stands up, turns around and faces the crowd, and just stands there for like 5 seconds as a dramatic pause. He has this super evil look on his face, then yanks off his warmups, and the crowd goes nuts. It was one of those things where you had to be there to fully appreciate it, but it was hilarious.
I think Irving's a heck of a player for his age, and definitely has the potential to climb to the top of that list. But Rondo has put up some huge games and made a ton of clutch plays in the playoffs. I know Irving doesn't have the luxury of playing with the same caliber of teammates Rondo has/does, but I'd still want to see Irving dominate in the playoffs before moving him ahead of Rondo.
I don't think Pierce or Garnett are washed up. They've both definitely lost a step, but still played at a high level this past season (and Pierce was playing on an injured knee in the playoffs). Hopefully the bottom doesn't fall out on either one this year, but I don't think it will.
One thing to keep in mind about Rondo is that he does benefit from his teammates when it comes to his assist totals. But IMO, he's capable of being a much more consistent scorer, but he understands that that's not his role as long as those guys are in town. So his scoring totals could be much more impressive if that had been his role.
Also, a lot of Boston's offense revolved around setting screens for Ray Allen. When it worked, it was a thing of beauty, but it began working less and less. I think that definitely hampered Rondo's ability to make plays. We'll see if there's a noticeable difference now that Ray is gone.
How can he dominate in the playoffs when he plays with a bunch of B list players. He was the most clutch player in the last 5mins in the NBA last year
NBA 2011-12 season player clutch stats in the fourth quarter and overtime of close games, including points, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and more.
This post was edited by Michmania 21 months ago
I didn't realize that Michmania was such a big Irving fan. He might have even more confidence in Irving that I do in Irving.
I'm glad that Michmania posted Irving's splits in the final minutes of the game. This is an underrated part of Irving's game.
People began to notice that Irving had a knack for taking over in the 4th quarter of games after 3 quarters of trying to create for his teammates. But this habit is not new. I've followed his career since he was at St. Patrick's HS (under Coach Boyle) and I can still clearly remember the nationally televised game against Findlay Prep. Irving single-handedly brought his HS team back from a double digit deficit in the 4th quarter when he decided to attack the rim on every possession rather than create scoring opportunities for others.
I really think Irving will be (as Coach Boyle said) "The best PG to ever come out of NJ." That means better than Bobby Hurley Jr, Jason Williams, and Dajuan Wagner. The first two had their NBA careers derailed by accidents.
This post was edited by Frank C 21 months ago
* * * N E O . R E T R O * * *
Are they helped? Yes, somewhat - certainly not tremendously though. Well, actually only assists are helped. More scoring options on the Celtics means more chance at assists for Rondo, but also less scoring opportunity. Better rebounders means less chance at rebounds for Rondo, yet Rondo is still a great rebounding PG. Steals isn't really impacted. Kyrie being the only threat for the Cavs hurts him in assists, but also helps him a lot in scoring as he is the go to scorer as well.
Rondo is easily the better PG than Irving right now. In the future? who knows.
My PG's assuming 100% healthy.
But like others have said, it depends what you want in a PG. Paul, Deron, and others are better passers than Westbrook, but Westbrook is probably #1 in terms of athleticism and overall defense. Rondo isn't a good/great shooter like a Steve Nash, but he Rondo is probably the #1 PG (maybe #1 G) in the league in terms of rebounding. CP3 gets the edge for me due to his all around game (good running an offense, great passer, good shooter from anywhere, solid/good defender - especially passing lanes, solid/good rebounder) and consistency.
Not saying it's Irving's fault. Just that, especially in the NBA where the regular season isn't nearly as intense as the playoffs, I've always felt the most important thing in evaluating a player is how he performs in the playoffs. I said the same thing about LeBron early in his career. Don't get me wrong - Irving will have his chance in the near future to prove himself on that stage. I'm just not ready to put him ahead of Rondo, someone that's had numerous monster playoff games, until Irving does that as well. You have every right to disagree - just giving my take.
I watch like every Celtics game, and I respectfully disagree with this. Paul is getting judged for last year which was an anomaly. Started out of nowhere with basically no training camp, he started off hurt and never shook the injuries. He also didn't have a viable option behind him at the 3 last season. I think he'll bounce back this year though. He still creates the shots for himself that he always has his whole career he just shot at a lower percentage last year.
I'll admit I'm so biased when it comes to this subject but I think he still has it. Reference the picture in my banner if you disagree
Early on in James career he carried a terrible Cavs team to the finals and single handily beat the Pistons.
And not sure how that link doesn't prove Irving is a dominate player with less than 5mins and neither team leads by 5points he is the most clutch by 6points over Durant.
Rondo is a great player but had 3 hall of fame players with him so hard to compare the two.
James didn't lead the Cavs over the Pistons until the 2006-07 season, which was his fourth in the league. And he didn't even make the playoffs until his third year in the league. That wasn't all his fault, but I do think it prevented him from establishing himself as an all-time great at that point, at least in my opinion.
Irving's stats during crunch time as a rookie were outstanding. Not knocking that at all. But I do think crunch time in the NBA or Conference Finals is a whole different beast than crunch time in the regular season. Rondo has gotten it done in those situations. Irving will have his opportunity to do the same at some point, but he hasn't yet, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's all I'm saying.
Honestly I think there is an elite group of 5 that consists of : Paul, Rose, Williams, Rondo, Westbrook .
It's really hard to rank them considering that they are very different players. If I had to take one guy it would be Rose, but that's just me.
Before that play, Irving supposedly asked Byron Scott if he wanted to tie or win the game. Ballsy.
Scott instructed the rest of the team to clear out and to give Irving space to operate 1-on-1. Irving didn't let his coach or his teammates down.
Btw, here's a tweet from Bill Simmons.
@BillSimmons: Damn that Under-21 All-Stars list is insane: Kobe, LeBron, Magic, Shaq, Isiah, KG, Kyrie. Nice company for Kyrie.
Every single one of those players before Kyrie has won at least 1 NBA Championship. And every one of those players minus Isiah Thomas won at least 1 NBA MVP.
This post was edited by Frank C 18 months ago
And check out this insane GIF of Irving executing a ridiculous sequence of moves (spin move, between the legs, crossover, pull-up 3) earlier this season.
He makes a future HOFer in Jason Kidd look silly.
I am gonna guess he really shows out at the All Star game and wins the MVP.
Irving is already a top PG and will continue to grow into and be in there with Durant/James soon enough.
To be fair Jason Kidd is almost 70 years old.
I think the best point guard is Chris Paul and I don't think it's even close. Guys like Westbrook can rack up stats, but Paul can beautifully run an offense and get everyone involved. The point guard position has clearly evolved, but when you have a point guard back there that knows the offense, knows what to do, and has the skills to get people involved, it's very difficult to stop. Having a real scoring threat at the point is great, but having that guy that can make the passes is bigger to me. Right now, I just don't see anybody in the game that can do it the way Paul can.
If you're talking scoring point guards, there's a huge debate. We will have to see how Derrick Rose recovers, but he would certainly had a good shot at being the NBA's best scoring point guard.
Basketball Analyst For BTPowerhouse & Wolverine 247 - Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/tbeindit
He's certainly one of the oldest players in the league but he has aged well (along with Grant Hill who is currently with the Clippers). He is still known for his defense and his passing. Keep in mind that this is the same Jason Kidd who was able to defend Lebron James in key moments of the the 2011 NBA Finals.
But I'm confident that sequence of moves would've made most NBA players look silly.
Irving just has this innate ability to smoothly string together various moves. Look at what he did to some members of Team USA in the summer scrimmages. Most of those guys are still in their prime.
Here it is Frank.
Tags: Team Usa FiBA Gold Medal 2012 Argentina Blake griffin Lebron James John wall eric gordon james harden igudola duke chandler westbrook durant kobe anthony davis Crossover 2012 dream team allen iverson larry bird magic johnson micheal jordan all time great defensive player of the year 50 point lead scrimmage pratice julius irving dunk constest blake griffin knee injury chris paul cp3 derrick rose rondo garnett pierce bosh wade howard steve nash to lakers allen to heat white blue red star hyperdunks 1 v 1
He looks like Datsyuk on that last play/move where he dribles between the legs and bounces it of his leg as a self pass
Kyrie Irving trolling the Oklahoma City Thunder last night.
He finished with 35 points.
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