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That's the scariest thing: I think he WAS running his offense in the second half.
After sleeping on yesterday's loss, I am definitely willing to give Borges more time.
None of us know how good of a OC Borges will be until next year. Over these past 2 years the offensive system has been modified to the type of talent that we have on that side of the ball. The system that Borges and Hoke want to run will not be implemented until next year.
Remember RR first year? When he didn't adapt his offense to the skill-set he had on the team? That didn't turn out well. Hoke and Borges could have done the same thing these past two years, but they decided to adapt their offense to the type of players they had.
Now, if Michigan struggles on Offense miserably next year..... Then I'll be livid.
11 National Titles | 42 Conference Titles | 3 Heisman Winners | 78 All-Americans | 37 College Hall of Fame Members
His years at Auburn show what kind of OC he is....he walked into a bunch of 1st rnd picks and was good. They left and his final year at Auburn he was behind that awesome #95 offense.
Hell, in year 2 at Michigan Al went from #42 to #67, it's only going to get worse with the one trick pony known as Big Al.
Our offense was not going to be as good this year as last year...EVERYONE knew this. Go back and look to the preseason predictions. Without Molk and Hemingway, just to begin with, we were downgraded. Denard's injury just hurt that much more.
I think next year is the make or break one for Borges, and to a lesser extent Hoke. Borges will have to show what he can do when he has a QB that he wants (Gardner) in there, basically with some solid experience behind him. All of Borges's pieces are there...will he fail or put them together?
As for Hoke...I think what I mean about next year is we will see if Hoke is really going to challenge the likes of Urban as the premier coach in the Big 10, or is going to become a Lloyd Carr shadow...a guy that will be just one tier below.
I am not as pessimistic as most of you, since I thought we were going to be 9-3 or 8-4, and here we are. All the pieces are in place to make a nice run next year, but the onus is really on the coaches now.
As a Spartan, I want to give coaches as much rope as possible before firing. You all of have witnessed what the coaching carousel did for MSU until Dantonio arrived. I would give Borges another chance simply based upon the fact that Denard is a special type of QB and dictated how your offense was run. I don't think that is Al's style but that is the hand he was dealt. That being stated, yesterday you guys put 14 points on the board via OSU not tackling Denard when 2 players had him sandwiched and the missed tackle on Roundtree. You take those two plays out of the equation and I am not sure Brady lets him on the bus.
Good luck with your bowl game cause you guys are still gonna get to go to a quality bowl with the cheaters being DQ'ed.
We'll trade Borges for Roushar
There is a reason Borges was at SDSU. Enough said.
I do find it funny that people act like Borges is some unknown quantity where we need to wait to find out about him. The guy isn't some 35 year old up and comer, almost all of us who aren't age 18 or under have seen the guy coach at other places. Borges was a concern from day one. I remember his Auburn offenses quite well, that was a classic vanilla "let the talent do the work for me" offense. There was a time when Borges' offense was innovative, that was the 90s and I was in high school, but by now Borges is an old hat.
Hell, there is a reason no one wanted him after Auburn canned him. Hoke grabbed this guy out of mothballs. Al is what he is, a well traveled OC who hasn't changed with the times. The same crap he called in 1999 at UCLA is the same crap he is calling now. The sport of football has evolved and Big Al is still trying to outsmart people with the same boring stuff.
If you go over to our board I would guess that 90 percent would take you up on that offer. That being stated, he probably would fit in better with a guy like Maxwell rather than Denard. Now that Denard graduates, I think it allows him to go to a more traditional pro style for DG and Morris. I think that also assists your OL going forward. Has to be a son of a bitch trying to figure out how to block with the QB shuffle going on.
You guys have some good looking lineman coming up for a pro style O that Hoke/Borges like to run so I think they actual need a couple of years post Denard to get it going how they would like.
In regards to Roushar, he took over from Treadwell who went to Miami OH and was handed Cousins, BJ and Keyshawn. With them gone, Roushar was exposed for not being able to even pull one play out of the book at crunch time repeatedly.
After sleeping on the loss yesterday, I almost feel worse. Borges needs to improve his play calling next year. I know we've harped on it ad nauseam, but those 3rd and 4th and short play calls are going to be engrained in my mind until January 1st. The fact that Denard said he could throw the ball if needed but the coaches never called it was a shot to my nuts in a seriously painful way.
How Denard didn't throw a pass when there were 9 guys in the box to stop it is beyond me. It seems like the play we ran under RR where he would take a step towards the line before pulling up to hit the slot receiver would have worked perfectly on 3rd and short with him in the game.
I don't care if Borges playcalling is fun, exciting, or innovative. As long as it works, I don't give a damn what he calls. There's just been too many times these last couple of years where he's flat out continued to call stuff that was not working. For all I care, he can run the ball right into the middle of the line every single 1st and 2nd down and throw on 3rd down. If it's moving the ball, then do it. But if it's not working, that dude needs to make some adjustments. If I don't see it next year, I'll call for his head.
At least Mattisons defenses will get better over the years to make up for the fat slob calling the offense
Borges is not going to get better. He isn't some young, up and coming OC. The only time he had a great offense is when he had all the first rounders at Auburn. After they left the offense was terrible, which is why he got canned.
You mean a coach that won multiple Big Ten Titles, a national championship, challenged for at least 2 more, in bowl games has beaten Alabama, Auburn, and Florida (coached by Urban QB’d by Tebow). I just hope Hoke is at least as good as Llyod was, because better than Carr would make him better than Urban or the Vest.
Good point, but having a completely outmatched offensive line really makes it difficult on the offensive coordinator. I'm not at all saying Borges called a good game, but I do think he was forced to fight with one hand tied behind his back.
True, but he was also running it with a completely outmatched offensive line. I thought Michigan's only chance to move the ball consistently was to play Denard at QB for all non-long yardage downs, and run the spread. So while I don't think Borges put Michigan in the best position to win, I also think he had a difficult task in front of him with the poor play up front and OSU's talent/depth on the defensive line.
This is what I've been saying. They couldn't run block, and they couldn't protect Gardner. There wasn't a whole lot for him to do. I mean did anyone see when they tried to run Rawls? There was absolutely nowhere for him to go.
The only thing I would say is that on 3rd down... I would've liked to see Devin and Denard in the backfield together to at least give the threat of a pass.
This. It's funny to hear people make the same complaints about someone else...
'Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable'
- President John F. Kennedy
Exactly Todd. You can only call so much and your offense can only be "so" good when you consistently cannot run the ball all year long in an offense that is not throwing the ball 50 times a game.
"Those Who Stay...Will be Champions"
Ok, but no throwback screen to Denard or Smith? If the oline is struggling move the pocket to the weak side and throw back strong side like they did against Iowa and countless other times. Or pitch to Denard and have Roundtree on a go route down field, once the pitch is made everyone bitesbites and Denard makes a 20 yard throw to a wide open guy. It's not too complicated. Bottom line when it mattered, Al sucked it up.
It's also a simple reality that Hoke, Borges and Co. have been here for 24 months now and if anyone had said that our O-Line at the end of year two will be the worst since the first RR year, people wouldn't have believed it. You had a staff coming in committed to establishing "old school football", old school offense, a tough O-Line is a big part of that. You can't pin all that on the recruits from RR being undersized or used to other blocking schemes because it's been enough time for a top O-Line coach to put together a functional O-Line that can at least blow mid-major defensive lines off the line of scrimmage. Yes, there's limits given the talent on the roster but I don't think we are anywhere near them.
This post was edited by UMSkeletor 20 months ago
Get over it Carr was a very good big ten coach, but couldn't get his NFL talent laden teams to be consistent onthe national stage. That is why he didn't win at least three more Big 10 and 2 more NC. He had some very very talented college football teams. Lloyd is a good man and a Michigan man but he could have done a little better with what he had and he left a complete mess.
I had a problem with this as well. I presumed he was trying to set something up but that something failed to materialize.
Baloney. Most were expecting passable line play and improved passing from Denard to go along with continued emergence of Fitz Toussiant.
We got none of that. With the possible exclusion of the receivers and specifically Jeremy Gallon, every position group and maybe every starter regressed from last year.
Denard, Fitz, Omameh, Barnum, and Schofield all noticeably regressed, and if Roundtree, Lewan, Rawls, Mealer, didn't regress as the last two seasons have gone on, they certainly haven't performed to expectations.
For RichRod's defense, lack of improvement and adjustment through the season was just as concerning as the incompetence itself. Borges' offense was the same way this season.
I agree with several of your points, but did you honestly believe, with the loss of Molk and others, that our OL was not going to be an issue this year? I agree it is FAR WORSE than I thought, but I knew it was going to be a downgrade. Additionally, our WR were a huge downgrade from last year, no? And we knew we were down to Freshman tight ends.
I agree that Borges did less with the talent we had then I would have liked...but I think we generally felt our offense would not be as good this year.
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