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The place for discussion on the Michigan Wolverines


Cheer, cheer for old Notre Dame ...

  • Or, then again, maybe not ...


  • Ouch.


  • Wow.

    And she's an alumna? Interesting.

  • Stuff like this is why I absolutely despise any "holier-than-thou" attitudes put forth by ND fans. I remember reading about the Seeberg case when it first happened and being disgusted, but unsurprised that the ND football team and athletic department have responded in the way that they have.

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    "Isn't it amazing what somebody will do when he can't bunt." - Vin Scully

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  • It would be tempting to take that story at face value but Melinda Henneberger isn't exactly the most neutral voice on the story either (she might have gone to ND but is also a feminist liberal who will always believe the girl's accusation).

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  • does she know sandra fluke?

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  • Best friend is Gloria Ahlred(sp)

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    "Strap on" is "No parts" spelled backwards...coincidence--- I think not!

  • Notre Dame is in the middle of nowhere. They basically control the town, and the children have free reign over everything.

    This is an absolutely disgusting case of womens rights being violated.

    If it was your daughter, sister, or cousin most people would feel much differently.

  • Are you censored kidding me with this?

    First off, it's always good to look critically at reporting, but Henneberger isn't breaking this story, and her personal opinion doesn't change anything about the reported facts. The National Catholic Reporter detailed the entire Seeberg situation as well, and I don't think you can exactly accuse them of a biased, feminist viewpoint. Whatever Henneberg's politics are, it takes two seconds of research online to see that her politics are in no way affecting her reporting of the alleged facts.

    Second, Sandra Fluke? Really? Not only is this board supposed to be politics-free, but Sandra Fluke is a right-wing talking point for no other reason than the fact that Rush Limbaugh called her a slut and Darrell Issa refused to allow her to speak at a contraception hearing. She has done nothing, at any point, to indicate that she is a "feminist liberal who will always believe the girl's accusation." Bringing up her name is nothing more than parroting a talking point - with no critical thought behind it, it's about as intelligent as saying "death panels!" or "ACORN stole the election!"

    This thread is getting dangerously close to simply attacking powerful female figures for no articulated reason other than their gender, and that's just disgusting. This is the type of bullshit I expect to see on tBB, but we're better than that.

    Reported sexual assault at Notre Dame campus


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  • Ever since Duke lacrosse, I am a lot more careful about this sort of thing. Those boys would have been off to jail with just a show trial in a kangaroo court if all the outrage mongers (incl. many journalists and academics) had had their way.

  • I understand that, and I support harsh punishments for false accusations of rape, but that turned into a kangaroo court because Mike Nifong, the DA, was so desperate for a conviction that he pushed things way farther than they ever should have gone. He, like many other DAs would have done, saw his chance for national attention and a career-making conviction, and he refused let it go.

    There's a world of difference between what Nifong did and the complete lack of an investigation into these accusations.

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  • Lets shut this down guys....

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  • I've read more than one article on the Seeberg case and none of them cleared up the no.1 contentious issue in this case i.e. what actually happened in the room. The articles written by Henneberger all go for the same narrative, but that's just what it is, a narrative. Just like the university has its narrative. I wasn't there, I don't know any of the people involved. You can choose which narrative to believe or you can create your own narrative from what you know about the case. In any event you will speak from a position of relative ignorance, I choose to do none of that.

    But because of that fact I am not going to conveniently use this story against Notre Dame, a rival who I despise, either. I don't believe in agendas like that.

  • Let the professionals take it from here

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    Gringo Mafia Sergeant at Arms - 5 time POTW

  • Some major lies and distortions by Henneburg. So before we start calling people rapist or sexual predators lets go through her article.

    IMO Henneburg is doing her best Al Sharpton impression on this one. The prosecutor’s written explanation said "Seeberg’s suicide made her statements to police inadmissible in court because they would be considered hearsay evidence. Dvorak also said Seeberg’s written statement conflicted with the accounts of three other students and that the cell phone records were inconsistent with Seeberg’s claims."

    Henneburg calls the girl stable she had to leave Dayton because of a pyscological break down. She was on Effextor an anti-depressent and anxiety drug. (Henneburg calls this the whisper campaign. Henneburg like Sharpton cares more about the cause than the girl. The player had to do it no way Seeburg could be lying)

    Also she claim the player in question was sexual assualting her until he got a phone call, but phone records show the player made the call. So basically he's in the middle of sexually assualting her but stops to make a phone call seems like a highly unusual act. (Henneburg cant sqaure this circle so she says that real victims get the facts wrong and that the ones that are usually lying have thier story down cold. Henneburg goes on Hardball and told a bald face lie when she described the event to Chris Matthews. Henneburg says the player threw her off because he got a phone call. Seems to me someone who knows the facts and all the players should know this. It was in the DA's report and one of the reasons the DA doubted Seeburg's story.)

    The picture of her that appeared in the paper was taken at a ND home game after she made the claim. So you've been sexually assualted but you go watch a football game and the player who you said sexually assualt you. Again highly an unsual act. (Henneburg cant justify this behavior by the family your daughter has been sexually assualted but you go tailgate and cheer for ND. SHe explains this away by saying she wanted to just fit in.)

    The evidence that is out there suggests that Seeburg had a credibilty issue with the investigators and the stories of her friend and even her own statements contradict the events that happened. I find it unreal that Henneburg rehashes a story that is 3 years old when law enforcement on every level finds no evidence a sexual assualt occured. The only thing missing from Henneburg story is the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll

    This post was edited by kaisercash 19 months ago

  • Relax man, it was just a jest. I didn't even read the article, but saw some comments about feminism. Whos the current poster girl of feminism? But your rant has me worried. Anyone who claims to spend $3,000 annually on birth control and needs the government to help subsidize might be a little bit of a nympho.

    This post was edited by Awink2 19 months ago

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  • Though unrecognizable to those who knew her, the portrait of Lizzy being passed around does have some bold strokes in common with the caricatures of other women who have reported being sexually assaulted at Notre Dame over the decades. In 1974, a South Bend woman who was hospitalized and then spent a month in a psychiatric facility after reporting being gang-raped by six Notre Dame football players was described by a top university administrator as “a queen of the slums with a mattress tied to her back.” No charges were filed, but the accused were suspended for a year for violating school rules. At the time, even so revered a figure as Holy Cross Fr. Theodore Hesburgh said: “We didn’t have to talk to the girl; we talked to the boys.” Hesburgh, who is 94, made that remark to Notre Dame alumnus Robert Sam Anson, who in his student days had founded the campus newspaper. Anson quoted Hesburgh in a story very much like this one, written 35 years ago.

    Those who argue that, if anything, Notre Dame is too hard on its athletes regularly cite the 2002 expulsion of three players and a former player accused of gang-raping a woman, though none of them served a day in jail. But their accuser insists they were only expelled after officials failed to dissuade her from going public: “First they said, ‘No one’s going to believe you.’ ” When she went to South Bend police anyway, Notre Dame officials “treated me horribly at every opportunity. I had PTSD [post-traumatic stress disorder] and I was afraid they [the players] were going to come after me again, but [school officials] wouldn’t let me park my car on campus because they said that wouldn’t be fair to the other students. When I tried to make an appointment with the counseling center, they called me back and said they couldn’t see me because of pending legal matters, though the legal matter they were talking about was the state versus these four rapists.”


  • After Lizzy’s death, Notre Dame officials did continue to investigate her, even interviewing her roommate at Dayton. But the player continued to take the field every Saturday, along with Michael Floyd, who was reinstated after a spring DUI that was his third alcohol-related offense, and the other player who a Notre Dame woman said had raped her in February 2011 -- the woman who, in light of Lizzy’s case, hadn’t reported it.

    The student who drove that young woman to the hospital was in the dorm where she was a resident assistant when she got the SOS. “She said she’d been raped by a member of the football team at a party off-campus.” The resident assistant, who asked that her name not be used because she, too, had reported being raped at Notre Dame two years earlier, stayed with her at the hospital, and then took her to the resident assistant’s parents’ home, which is within driving distance. There, her mother made breakfast and her father watched in horror as the young woman received text after text from the player’s friends. “My wife and I looked at them, and they were trying to silence this girl.” After the father informed Notre Dame officials about the texts, he said, they promised to get the guys to “knock it off.”

    “So they can talk to them about shutting up,” the resident assistant’s father went on, “but not about what happened? The inconsistency is nauseating.” The young woman did not respond to messages I left for her. Because she’s on scholarship, she fears losing it if she speaks out or makes the school look bad, her friend said.

    As a result of the Seeberg case, the civil rights office of the U.S. Department of Education launched a seven-month investigation into how all cases are handled at the University of Notre Dame -- an investigation that ended in a settlement agreement that allowed the university to avoid a potential loss of Title IX funds. (See story.) As part of a crackdown by the Obama administration, the Department of Education also sent a “Dear Colleague” letter to all schools last spring, reiterating that all known cases of possible sexual assault must be investigated on college campuses, even when the possible victim does not press charges or file a complaint.

    After that letter went out, the resident assistant said, Notre Dame officials did launch an investigation into the case involving her friend -- but told her, she said, that they would not be interviewing her because as a resident assistant in a dorm, she was in a pastoral position.

    When I asked the resident assistant how much, if at all, Lizzy’s experience influenced her friend’s decision not to file a complaint, she said, “Oh, 100 percent; we talked a lot about Lizzy” and about the resident assistant’s own experience of having the campus disciplinary board find the young man she had accused “not responsible” of anally raping her on a date. “She said, ‘Nothing happened? Then I’m not doing it.’ ”