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Which is perfectly reasonable. Michigan didn't do anything wrong, and yet we came in 2nd for Garnett, Diamond, Kozan, Dunn and Reeves in 2012, and Standifer didn't qualify which pretty much lost us Treadwell too. Add in 2013, where we've come in 2nd with Isaac, LMIII, Conley, and Levenberry, and it seems wildly unfair that the biggest coaching change should come at Oregon and basically giftwrap Dontre Wilson to OSU.
I'm still real skeptical about wilson to OSU, I'll believe it when it happens. as for the rest, good schools are going to finish as second choices for lots of top prospects that's how it works.
I'm aware, and I'm aware that there are one-on-one battles we've won (Poggi comes to mind), but we really have come in 2nd an annoying amount for top prospects. I recognize that's a factor of even being in the conversation for great recruits, but I'd still like to see a better ratio for closing.
When it comes to protracted recruiting battles between two or more programs, Michigan does seem to come out on the short end more often than not. Poggi is the only 2013 kid that Michigan won over another school, the rest were pretty wide open behind Michigan when they committed.
Just look at Derrick Green - we are all nervous about him, and our chief rivals are two programs who went through embarrassing implosions to some degree, and schools he has yet to visit.
I do have to mention that the Kalis and Douglas recruitments worked out pretty good for second place.
Too be fair, how many of those kids would have been had the Tressell situation never played out? From May until November the program was kind of in limbo with Fickell at the helm. Some of those kids (not all, but especially the local guys/western PA guys) may have given the Buckeyes a much stronger look had Tress and company stayed and continued to recruit hard through the summer. That year with Fickell was during crunch time for 2012 recruits, and early time to build relationships with class of 2013 kids.
It's a game of What ifs? I think some of the this years flips could be due to the same thing. Trey Johnson committed to Auburn in August of 2011, OSU wasn't exactly looking good at the time. And OSU didn't even contact the kid until a year later at least. Same thing could have happened with Dymonte Thomas, his prime recruiting time was when recruiting was the last thing on OSU coaches minds. If a solid relationship was built 2 years ago everything may have played out completely differently. I'm sure the same thing could be said about Michigan recruiting during the RR-Hoke transition when maybe some kids that would've normally given them a hard look didn't because nobody knew what was going to happen.
This post was edited by JStan12 15 months ago
Ignoring a decade of cheating makes things fair?
last time I looked only the 2010 season was vacated right? I understand your displeasure with the buckeyes for them getting quality players, when it comes to recruiting, after all, we are rivals, but this is a pretty immature statement, we are after all on probation, we are paying the price for what happened, everyone knows it, maybe its time for you to accept it and move on.
This post was edited by ncbuckeye2 15 months ago
I'm not talking about the NCAA sanctions. I'm talking about him treating the Tressell debacle as bad luck for OSU.
That's not what I said nor implying. Ohio State coaches didn't plan for Reeves, Williams, and others to commit to other schools so that they could jump in and "steal" them at the last second. It's just the way the chips fell. What happened, happened. Ohio State paid/is paying the price for it. Be fair to those kids that many here ridicule for jumping ship and choosing to go to college at OSU.
College coaches have the goal to go out and get the ~25 best young men to come to their school to get their education, get mentoring for adulthood, and to play their hearts out on the football field. It's up to the kids where they decide to go, not the other way around. And in this case there was a bad situation where one of the schools they really wanted to research/visit/consider was undergoing a transition so it got passed up. Then OSU hires Urban Meyer, sanctions are given, the storm passes and they then give the school another chance. It just so happened to work in their favor a couple times. There's nothing negative about it, which I feel is the impression around here.
Bad luck? No, I'm saying that the Tress situation hurt the school in other ways that aren't stated in the NCAA sanctions. It hurt the next coaches (i.e Fickell and now Meyer&staff) ability to build relationships with high school players. Meyer specifically had to immediately attempt to mend those relationships with recruits and high school coaches (most notably in Ohio/Western PA), he pretty much flat out said this exact thing in his press conference when he was first hired, that his first duty was to get on the phone and make some calls. It worked out with guys like Armani Reeves and Noah Spence, kids who maybe would've been Buckeyes all along if the debacle never occurred, but we'd never know that.
Exactly...im not providing a diatribe on recruiting technique/strategy, rather the incredulous fortuitous circumstances which INDIRECTLY occur.
Armani Reeves and Noah Spence may have been Wolverines if Jim Harbaugh was coach, even if Tressel wasn't exposed for a cover up, but we'd never know that. Awesome rationale right there.
I'll believe it when i see it. Alot feel he's gonna stay with oregon. Me being one of them. Hope youre right though!!! I'm not confident with any of the oregon commits right now
I don't think anyone has a problem with any decisions any kids have made. It sucks Armani Reeves and Brionte Dunn ultimately chose OSU, but I don't hold it against them.
Now, before I continue, remember you are on a Michigan board. I'm gonna be respectful, but you're not gonna like my opinion. Remember where you are at and what sort of opinions you are opening yourself up to hearing by visiting.
Ohio State is a shady program. IMO, the athletic department had to be very aware of players getting improper benefits for at least a decade. They've been complicit because it makes it easier for the program. We are certain that Tressell was complicit in at least one instance, and lied his way into a BCS bowl appearance. At no point did OSU suffer any real consequences - vacated wins?! pffffft!
So everytime I hear an OSU fan use the phrase "To be fair", I puke a little bit.
"But we'd never know that", must have missed that as that was the key part to that statement. Obviously nobody would ever know, that's why I said what I said. Some people here implied that "the only reason OSU got 5 guys last year and 2 this year is because coaches left" and similar statements, well if it is fair game to say that without concrete evidence, then I can say the opposite was true. We can sit here and play the game of What Ifs? all day long, that wasn't my purpose of responding here. My point continues to be, don't condemn a high school player for flipping to a school he would have normally given a decent shot under normal circumstances. Nor should you condemn the NEW coaching staff when they pursue kids who had committed to other schools/were leaning to other schools when the staff wasn't even hired yet. Both of these happen a lot at big time schools who have transitional coaching periods, which you should be aware of if you pay attention to recruiting even just a little bit.
It's not fair to ridicule a kid who decommits when the coach who he promised to play for jumps ship to another school for more money. If that kid decides to take a second look around at schools, then it's fair game for any coach in the country to be interested and to pitch their school to them. I see absolutely nothing sketchy about it, which I feel is the impression here when OSU or MSU or ND benefit from it.
I use the phrase "to be fair", as a rational person who looks at both sides of an argument, not as a college football fan. There isn't too much fairness in this giant business that uses 20 year olds as puppets to make millions for their schools.
I agree completely with this, but there is a wrong and a right way to make positive gains. Maurice Clarett and Terrell Pryor didn't receive that sort of help.
I think you're conflating issues a bit. The vast majority of us Michigan posters in this thread (and I think on this site) simply get a bit exasperated at the fact that the chips have seemingly fallen OSU's way a whole lot recently in regards to recruiting. It seems simply morally unfair that a dirty program gets the benefit of upheaval elsewhere.
However, we're not saying that the benefits of upheaval (ex. the PSU kids) are a result of OSU being a dirty program. There's nothing sketchy about kids taking a second look around after some upheaval, it happens all the time. Sometimes it benefits us (Kalis), sometimes it benefits you (Reeves, Williams, Schutt, O'Connor, Decker, etc...). The view of OSU as a dirty program is divorced from our displeasure with OSU's luck when it comes to second chances at kids.
Well said. C
No! Tressel lost his job, the team did not play for a NC, and OSU lost schollies because Tressel lied to the NCAA. Not because they trades some trinkets for tats/cash. I don't get why OSU fans keep saying it was because of the tats/cash.
As long as Meyer is the head coach i will believe OSU is dirty.
1. A whole hell of a lot more than trading trinkets and tattoos for cash occurred over the last decade or so.
2. OSU went from Tressell to Meyer, which is probably a trade that they would have taken had Tressell not lied to the NCAA.
3. The fact that you are complaining about not getting a chance to play for the NC this year kinda confirms my point.
4. There is no acceptable punishment at this point, because the NCAA has long established that it is more interested in putting on a front to barely disguise the exploitation of "student athletes", rather than enforcing any sort of compliance amongst its members. No punishment the NCAA could have handed out would have been an appropriate punishment and been consistent with the NCAA's actions in the past because the NCAA is a joke. That said, I think at least a two for one punishment for lying their way into the Sugar Bowl was called for.
5. Its your own fault that you didn't play in the NC because your administrators were too damn arrogant to actually impose sanctions on the program the year before.
This post was edited by bkp1883 15 months ago
The punishment is fine but it doesn't mean that my opinion of OSU being dirty goes away.
Good comparison. The late 90s and 2000s were a wasteland for Michigan basketball largely because of the Fab 5 nonsense.
If OSU's football program suffered in a manner similar to Michigan's basketball program, it wouldn't even sniff the BCS for 15 years, and you would have to deal with a Brian Ellerbe sort as coach for next four years.
Now that's paying for your crimes.
That's fine so long as you don't get offended by the OSU fans who still find Michigan dirty based on the Fab 5 era! I personally don't, but people are willing to hold grudges forever over the silliest things. If the entirety of the OSU football program is dirty to you based on a relatively singular group of dirty people within a 10 year period of OSU's 100+ year football history, then there's no reason why OSU fans shouldn't call Michigan basketball dirty based on Ed Martin's relationship with the Michigan program and the some $616,000+ he was shown to have given members of the team over the years.
^That to me is a silly positive to have, though. Michigan isn't dirty because of the actions of a small group of people, OSU isn't dirty to me because of the actions of a small group of people. Just my 2 cents.
This post was edited by dukeluke 15 months ago
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