In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 463
Online now 211 Record: 7264 (3/12/2012)
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
Great game and I would hate to be on the losing side. Again both teams played great and this one was up in the air until final seconds. Hats off to your team and I hope they are able to turn this into a positive for next year.
Just curious on your take on the 4th qtr 4th down spot and then call when it appeared very clear (from my beer eyes) that it was short
It was short IMO. Not sure why we went for it but whatever. It all worked out and set up the momentum play of the game.
Refs were extremely suspect this game.
Probably one reason why the Big East wont be around much longer
Terrible spot obviously, but that ended up helping you more than us
This post was edited by Ducksworth 15 months ago
I thought we didn't get it on the measurement but I also thought that the spot we got was pretty bad. The initial spot we got was a sure thing first down, then another official comes in and puts it back about half a foot and I thought that we were getting gamed in front of the Carolina bench. It's still hard to explain the thought process of the ref who gave us the first down with the spot we did get there.
Pretty much my exact thoughts.
It looked short because of the camera angle. Refs were right on top of it.
I thought it was short every way they looked at it.
So was Spurrier
I'm just glad all that money we're sending Delaney is paying dividends.
No kidding. Glad we still have the Big Ten and NCAA on our payroll. Otherwise we may have been 6-6 going to the BWW bowl game.
Yeah, it was obviously short, but you guys still won (I'm assuming you're a SC fan).
Terrible call IMO. Ball was short.
That being said, I HATED that play call. I know Hoke is kind of a gambler, but that was not the situation. IIRC we were around our 40 yard line so a failure gives USCe a very short field. Also there was about 8 minutes left in the game, so getting the 1st down doesn't mean we can run out the rest of the time.
This is a situation where even if it worked it was a bad decision.
"Isn't it amazing what somebody will do when he can't bunt." - Vin Scully
Completely agree with this.
I've never seen that type of mistake from a ref at any level of football. It ultimately didn't impact the outcome of the game, but it's still inexcusable.
So you expect Spurrier to say "hey looks good guys" with the game on the line when its that close? Besides, a lot of misdirected passion goes a long way in motivating a team. Just ask Woody or Bo or oh yah, Clowney.
The ref is a foot away, its not possible to make a bad call. But here we have a million fans looking from the bad camera angle from across the field that can make a better call. This isn't like second guessing a call from an insant replay that we see and the refs can't yet.
I will say that we (the TV audience) never got to see a very good view of either the play unfolding and the ball carrier being down OR the actual measurement. Given that fact, a lot of people are far too sure of two things: (1) that the actual spot of the ball was too favorable to Michigan and (2) that the measurement showed Michigan was short.
(1) really puzzles me because we were never shown any camera view whatsoever that indicated this at all and that was not even what Spurrier and the Carolina players were mad at, they were mad about (2). It didn't look like the ball touched the first down marker. They challenged the spot of the ball because they couldn't do anything else, they couldn't challenge the eyesight of the ref on the measurement. That said, the outrage of the Carolina sideline is in a way irrelevant or would you let *them* spot the ball?
The TV images were very unclear about (1), there was nothing there to really indicate a favorable spot for us or Carolina. It's another one of those situations where there was no camera shot showing it one way or the other. No shock that the review official didn't overturn the spot. The TV images did seem to show (2) i.e. the ball being short on the measurement, but then we never got a really great view of it either. We see it from an angle that meant the ball was always going to look further back in relation to the marker than it really was - whether the distance of ball to marker was great enough to realistically produce the gap we see is a different question, I'd say it's still pretty doubtful but it's much closer than the screenshot we see everywhere indicates.
I wonder to what extent the general outrage is based on Spurrier's reaction, the Tirico/Gruden reaction, ignorance of the visuals created by angles and some confusion about what the word "spot" actually means here.
This post was edited by UMSkeletor 15 months ago
It looked short because it was short. The camera angle was perpendicular to the ball and stick. It was clearly short. It is ok to admit. It's not our fault.
The conversation with the ref seems to indicate he knows he blew it. Said he knew the ball was short and does not know why he gave it to them (article on ESPN). What kind of idiot would blow a call and then make that statement? WOW.
Ducksworth - thanks for visiting our board. Great having you around. Good game - best of the bowl season thus far.
Well that's a pretty interesting comments from the ref. Can you post the video or article?
I agree that, in general, we can't really take the reaction of the opponent's sideline as an indication of whether or not a call was correct. If the South Carolina sideline would have been going nuts about the actual spot itself, that wouldn't be nearly as significant to me. But when it comes down to a measurement, and it's either a first down or short, there really isn't any subjectivity to it. So while the South Carolina sideline was clearly biased, I don't think they would have reacted like they did unless the refs clearly got it wrong.
edit: pic fail
This post was edited by DavidsonNCCock 15 months ago
I disagree. Because in a close game in that situation, you will see things your way. And the reality is that if the very tip of the ball even just seems to be aligned with the furthest back part of the marker it's a first down. You can bet even if that's the case, South Carolina would go nuts because it wouldn't look obvious at first or second glance.
Now that said, the measurement does look short and it probably was short, but I think it's *much* closer looking at it from the top standing over it than it did from those angles we see (I've set to see a shot where the camera was perfectly aligned with the marker and that includes all the tiny screenshots posted in this thread).
This was sort of a freak occurance, but how do we know a 100% correct spot of the ball wouldn't have placed the ball that 1/2 inch further forward to give it the first down anyway? Maybe they should play a test game of football with everything equipped with sensors and then see how many inches are lost and won every game just through the eyesight and judgment of referees.
It was actually one of the other refs.......but here it is.
NCAA College Football Recap
In all honesty, I'm not exactly sure why this is getting so much attention since it really had no affect on the actual game. It was very odd. The initial call was definitely the wrong call. However, when they looked at the replay, it is possible that they judged that the original spot was not kind enough. We never saw a good replay of the actual fourth down play, which kinda pissed me off at the time.
Personally, I think more attention should be given to bad calls that actually affected the outcome of the game--like that blatant block in the back on Ace Sander's punt return. Am I the only one who witnessed that?
Either way, our defense didn't step up when they needed to. You can't blame a loss on bad calls. There are always things that a team can do to negate poor calls on the field. The Clowney play is a good example.
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports